Nasal Pillows at higher pressures?

jcranmer · Post by **jcranmer** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:29 am

While my F&P 407 is working pretty well for me, I am really wanting to try a different mask style. A recent post about nose itches, made me realize how often I have that problem as well.

So how many of you that use pillows are at the higher end of the pressure range. My pressure is set to 17, and I'm afraid that I might not be able to get a good seal. I'd be paying out of pocket for any mask I get, and would prefer not to get stuck with a mask I can't use.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:17 pm

I don't normally use a high pressure (autopap range 9 - 16, rarely hit 13 and even then just briefly), but I did experimentally try several nasal pillows interfaces at pressure of 20 (not for long!! wow...hurricane!) just to see if they could seal. They did.

I tried the Breeze with nasal pillows, Twilight NP (formerly called the "Aura") and the ComfortLite 2 with its nasal pillows. All of them sealed fine at pressure of 20 cm H20.

Granted I did add my usual homemade strap across the front of the masks, but I have to do that even at low pressures to keep nasal pillows steadily in place when I toss'n'turn a lot during sleep.

A message board regular nicknamed Titrator used a Breeze for several years on a bi-level machine with IPAP (inhale pressure) of 18, if I remember correctly.

Nasal pillows ROCK, imho.

But if they rock tooooo much from side to side... try a homemade strap or two (any soft, stretchy material) routed like so:

Linda3032 · Post by **Linda3032** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:31 pm

And to add to RG's pictures, I will add that both she and I have removed the headgear off the Aura. It is lighter weight and very stable with just two stretchy straps.

If you prefer to leave the headgear on, and if you use a stretchy strap just over the nose pillows, then the headgear can be left very loose. You won't have to tighten it down because the stretchy strap does most of the work to hold the pillows snugly to your nares.

Another thing to consider. I would assume the noise level of the nasal pillows would go up drastically at the higher pressures. Nasal pillows usually are noisier than nasal and full face masks.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:48 pm

Linda3032 wrote:And to add to RG's pictures, I will add that both she and I have removed the headgear off the Aura. It is lighter weight and very stable with just two stretchy straps.

Good point, Linda. Yep, without the headgear, the way I wear the Aura looks like this:

Linda3032 · Post by **Linda3032** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:33 pm

rested gal wrote:
Linda3032 wrote:And to add to RG's pictures, I will add that both she and I have removed the headgear off the Aura. It is lighter weight and very stable with just two stretchy straps.
Good point, Linda. Yep, without the headgear, the way I wear the Aura looks like this:

Yep, and it works perfectly.

jcranmer · Post by **jcranmer** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:33 pm

Thanks for all the information, I knew I could count on you two to answer any questions I have!

I take it you are both sold on the twilight NP? There are so many different ones to choose from, I wasn't sure where to even begin.

From a quick browse of cpap.com, I was liking the look of the optilife, since it has a built in chin strap. I'm a mouth breather so it would be nice to have a chin strap built into the head gear. However I'm not sold on the way the hose is routed on it. Seems like it might make it harder to get a good seal

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:52 pm

jcranmer wrote:I'm a mouth breather so it would be nice to have a chin strap built into the head gear. However I'm not sold on the way the hose is routed on it. Seems like it might make it harder to get a good seal

Chin straps, whether separate or built-in wouldn't help me a bit to not "mouth breathe." Even with teeth clenched tight shut my tongue simply does not maintain a leak proof seal...I easily puff air out my mouth. I think for some people a chin strap built into the mask might even cause the mask itself to leak if the pressure of their jaw against a built-in strap tugged downward on the nasal part. But any mask is worth a try...you never know which one will be a "wow, this really works for me!" mask.

I much prefer routing the main air hose overhead. So, I personally detest masks with tubes hanging down in front, or ones where you have to clip the air hose to the side of the bed or to PJ's or to head pillow.

I want to be like a fish on the end of a slack line (I first came across that very apt description by Biker on the TAS board...lol) I want to be able to turn over easily underneath; side to side, with the hose completely up and out of the way.

LINKS to Hose hangers and methods of managing the air hose
viewtopic.php?t=10640

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:38 pm

When I first started treatment, I was using vanilla CPAP at a pressure of 15. At that time, I was using the original Comfort-Lite. It sealed just fine. I also used Breeze at that pressure and found that it sealed without problem.

Unlike Linda, I find the nasal pillows to be quieter than any of the non-pillow masks. I've tried a bunch, including Activa and while they were all fine masks (I'm sure) they just were not right for me and noise was one of the factors. Everybody's experience is different... you may find a non-pillow mask to be quieter than a pillow mask. Give them a try.

For what it is worth, I have been using the new Comfort-Lite 2 and even with the twist-tie fix to the pillow section, cannot tolerate the mask. The original CL stayed firmly in place whereas the new CL2 manages to creep up and off my head no matter how I adjust the headgear. Makes me nuts!!

pedroski · Post by **pedroski** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:33 pm

jcranmer wrote:So how many of you that use pillows are at the higher end of the pressure range. My pressure is set to 17, and I'm afraid that I might not be able to get a good seal.

I have used my Swift II on 14 & 15 and had no dramas getting a good seal. I've now backed it off on apap to 11 - 15, but the pressure doesn't make it leak as long as you have your mask set up properly.

Good luck

Peter

Linda3032 · Post by **Linda3032** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:35 pm

Actually, Will's post made me realize that I was writing about something I've only read about. So many people complain about the "noise" of nasal pillows - and I've heard about quiet nasal or full face masks. To be honest, I've only used two interfaces - the NasalAire and the Aura.

So, I just assume that nasal pillows would be louder at 17 pressure than at 7 pressure.

Everytime I see a new mask, I think "oh boy, that one looks great". Then I realize that I love my Aura so why change? Since I began using the Aura, I've tried on the CL2 and the Swift - for about 10 minutes each, and that was enough. ...

My husband says I find what I like and stick to it - That's the secret to a long happy marriage.

Daffney_Gillfin · Post by **Daffney_Gillfin** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:20 am

jcranmer wrote: From a quick browse of cpap.com, I was liking the look of the optilife, since it has a built in chin strap. I'm a mouth breather so it would be nice to have a chin strap built into the head gear. However I'm not sold on the way the hose is routed on it. Seems like it might make it harder to get a good seal

The chin strap on the Optilife is only there to stabilize the mask. It will not help with mouth breathing. If you normally use a chin strap, it goes on before the mask. There are options with the hose management. See http://optilife.respironics.com/Fitting.asp for more info.

I've had the Optilife for four days now. I think it's going to be a keeper for me.

jcranmer · Post by **jcranmer** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:07 pm

Daffney_Gillfin wrote:
The chin strap on the Optilife is only there to stabilize the mask. It will not help with mouth breathing. If you normally use a chin strap, it goes on before the mask. There are options with the hose management. See http://optilife.respironics.com/Fitting.asp for more info.

I've had the Optilife for four days now. I think it's going to be a keeper for me.

Bummer...I was hoping that it would at least let me do away with my chin strap.

I'm not really worried about noise, I sleep with a fan for a little "white noise" at night anyway.

Now I have to decide on what to do, lucky for me, it's a couple of weeks before I get my bonus check from work. So I have some time to think about it.

DME_Guy · Post by **DME_Guy** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:15 pm

I've spoken with sales reps from PB, Respironics, and Resmed. They all say that nasal pillows shouldn't be used at high pressures. It's like pushing water through a small hose vs a normal size hose. I don't have any personal experience with this but that's what I've been told.

track · Post by **track** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:41 pm

I've spoken with sales reps from PB, Respironics, and Resmed. They all say that nasal pillows shouldn't be used at high pressures. It's like pushing water through a small hose vs a normal size hose. I don't have any personal experience with this but that's what I've been told.

Would that apply to the hybrid as well?

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:58 pm

DME_Guy wrote:

I've spoken with sales reps from PB, Respironics, and Resmed. They all say that nasal pillows shouldn't be used at high pressures.

I went to the Puritan Bennett website and reviewed their published literature regarding pressure range tolerances for Breeze. They state that Breeze can tolerate a range of 3-35 cm H2O.

http://www.puritanbennett.com/prod/Prod ... CPI&id=233

If I knew how to make links "clickable" I'd have done so. If you go to the site, select the product data sheet downloads.

Mask

Mask

Mask

Mask

Additional Comments: Strictly a side sleeper

Nasal Pillows at higher pressures?

Nasal Pillows at higher pressures?

Re: Nasal Pillows at higher pressures?