O2 ring, side sleeping, camping, O2 levels?

[nmevan]

Hello good people.
I want to go camping without my BIPAP.
I want to know if sleeping on my side will reduce my apnea enough to not damage my health while camping.
I want to know what a healthy O2 rating is.
I want to know if an O2 ring bought on amazon will give me the information I need.
I don't want to go in for a full sleep study to try to prove my theory that they won't go along with in the first place.

Here's the thing. I was diagnosed with severe OSA and CSA. I know the OSA was severe...not sure about the CSA.
Now...if I purchase an O2 ring sensor from amazon, and I do somehow manage to sleep on my side, and it does show that I stay above a certain O2 saturation (which I don't know what that would be) would it be safe for me to go camping for a long period of time without my BIPAP.

What does it matter whether or not I have both OSA and CSA if my O2 stays within a healthy range? Isn't that what it is all about? Doesn't it just come down to O2 saturation levels?

Thank you in advance.

[ChicagoGranny]

if my O2 stays within a healthy range? ... Doesn't it just come down to O2 saturation levels?

Good grief, you've been an active member for 14 years. You should know better than that.

Isn't that what it is all about?

No, it's about sleeping well.

[Pugsy]

What does it matter whether or not I have both OSA and CSA if my O2 stays within a healthy range? Isn't that what it is all about? Doesn't it just come down to O2 saturation levels?

There's more to sleep apnea than just O2 levels. There's this thing called "sleep" itself that is really important.

If you do what you are wanting to do and if your O2 levels remain stable all that proves is you aren't having extensive drops in your oxygen levels. It doesn't prove your OSA/CSA isn't all that bad.

Did you know that some people won't have a really low O2 level with OSA/CSA? Some people wake up and often causing them to wake up and breathe on their own because the apnea event woke them up BEFORE there had time to be an O2 drop.

[nmevan]

Pugsy...you are a gem.
I did not know that people wake up before their O2 drops.
Let's say that is not the case. That a person only wakes up when their body detects dangerously low O2...but if sleeping on your side keeps you from having severe OSA, then would what I am proposing make sense?

As for waking up, I have to adjust my nose pillow mask at least ten times per night. I'd say that I only get 1 entire thru night's sleep for every 10 days. And I have to be incredibly exhausted.
I was originally diagnosed as a mouth breather, but sleeping with the full mask was impossible, so I taught myself how to breath through my nose...despite that, I still have to adjust the nose pillows multiple times a night.

Also, oddly enough, I've never displayed any symptoms of severe sleep apnea like falling asleep during the day. Even before I started using my BIPAP. And I was and am quite active. I only know I have sleep apnea because my doctor looked down my thought and told me I have a large tongue and narrow airway. Then I had a sleep study and discovered I had severe sleep apnea. Without the doctors exam and sleep study, I would have not known...though I have had complaints about my snoring.

Thanks again.

[Pugsy]

Pugsy...you are a gem.
I did not know that people wake up before their O2 drops.
Let's say that is not the case. That a person only wakes up when their body detects dangerously low O2...but if sleeping on your side keeps you from having severe OSA, then would what I am proposing make sense?

If sleeping on your side kept you from having OSA then why bother with cpap? Just sleep on your side. Problem solved (at least in your mind).
Do you have proof that you don't have OSA when sleeping on your side?
Real Proof????? And not having desats does NOT constitute real proof no matter how many ways you try to word it.

Your body...your choice but don't try to rationalize it based solely on O2 levels.

Try your experiment at home....see how you do and how you sleep and how you feel.

[Miss Emerita]

Untreated sleep apnea puts people at a higher risk of cardiovascular disease.

"Each time a person with sleep apnea stops breathing, the body's oxygen level drops. The body reacts by producing epinephrine (also called adrenaline), a stress hormone. Over time, high adrenaline levels can contribute to high blood pressure. Repeated surges in blood pressure levels can damage the lining of the blood vessels, and sleep disturbances can also raise levels of harmful LDL cholesterol and other blood fats. These changes may lead to clogged arteries and poor heart muscle function. People with untreated sleep apnea are twice as likely to have a heart attack compared with those who don't have the disorder." (from the Harvard Medical School)

There is also some evidence that untreated sleep apnea increases the risk of Alzheimer's:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6542637/

[nmevan]

Pugsy, I'm not here to upset anyone...and truth is, perhaps I should have studied all this stuff a long time ago...but time flies.
So, by this conversation I am left with these two things... 1. Obviously, desats are bad for your health. 2. Waking up, even without desats, disturbs your sleep enough to be detrimental to your overall health.

Is there anything else that one should be concerned about with OSA...or even CSA?

Thanks

[robysue1]

Pugsy...you are a gem.
I did not know that people wake up before their O2 drops.
Let's say that is not the case. That a person only wakes up when their body detects dangerously low O2.

The criteria for scoring obstructive apneas and obstructive hypopneas on a sleep test involve a significant reduction in airflow into the lungs for at least 10 seconds PLUS either an O2 desat or an arousal following the event. While you know that some of your obstructive events on your diagnostic sleep test all those years ago involved dangerously low O2 levels, you don't actually know that each and every one of your OAs and Hs had a corresponding O2 desat, let alone a desat that led to "dangerously low" O2 levels in your blood.

In other words, many of your events may very will have had a rather minor O2 desat followed by an arousal---an arousal that you didn't remember because the arousal itself lasted just a few seconds---just long enough to restart the breathing.

..but if sleeping on your side keeps you from having severe OSA, then would what I am proposing make sense?

On your original diagnostic sleep test was there any evidence that your untreated OSA is highly positional? If not, then sleeping on your side is not likely to make any significant difference in the number of apneas you will have when you choose to sleep without your BiPAP.

As for waking up, I have to adjust my nose pillow mask at least ten times per night. I'd say that I only get 1 entire thru night's sleep for every 10 days. And I have to be incredibly exhausted.

There's a big difference between waking up enough to adjust your nasal pillows mask about 10 times during the course of the night and having respiratory related arousals following OAs and Hs that are occurring even a modest 5-10 times each hour or more. Here's the thing: Those respiratory related arousals are so short you won't remember waking up for them. But they will destroy your sleep cycles and most likely you will wake up feeling much more tired than you would if you just brought the BiPAP camping with you.

Also, oddly enough, I've never displayed any symptoms of severe sleep apnea like falling asleep during the day.

Not everybody with untreated OSA has the obvious symptoms of severe daytime sleepiness that is the hallmark of untreated OSA. But once your body has adapted to sleeping with the CPAP/BiPAP, your body has come to realize what high quality sleep uninterrupted by the constant arousals and desats caused by the multiple obstructive events occurring every hour all night long. In other words, sleeping without the BiPAP now may very well led to you waking up feeling tired and unrested even if you don't remember any actual wakes.

For what it's worth, I was someone who was (apparently) symptom free when I went for a sleep test because my husband kept telling me that he was witnessing me have apneas and I was snoring a lot of the time. Starting CPAP triggered a whole lot of additional sleep problems, and it was only after I was keeping an insomnia log that I began to notice that on many mornings the hand and foot pain that I'd been waking up with for several years was not present. This hand/foot pain had been diagnosed as "minor arthritis" by my PCP and there was some evidence in foot x-rays that there may indeed be some minor arthritis. But that pain has basically disappeared completely and the sleep doc's explanation was to speculate that all the cortisone and stress hormones being released by my body when the apnea was untreated was leading me to clench my hands (and feet) into fists all night lont. Even today, my own answer to "why do I keep PAPing?" is "I don't want to go back to waking up with hand/foot pain every morning.

I only know I have sleep apnea because my doctor looked down my thought and told me I have a large tongue and narrow airway.

The best guess as to why I have sleep apnea is the combination of my somewhat large tongue, small jaw, and very narrow airway. On my diagnostic sleep tests my sleep position made no real difference in the severity of my untreated OSA. So if the cause of your apnea is that combination of your tongue and narrow airway, there is no guarantee that trying to sleep only on your side will reduce the number of apneas you will experience when sleeping without your machine.

Without the doctors exam and sleep study, I would have not known...though I have had complaints about my snoring.

Will you bee sharing that tent with someone? If so, then you will be subjecting them to your snoring---which will come back just as soon as you sleep without your BiPAP.

[nmevan]

Thank you so much for all the time and energy you put into your response.