Arousals while in REM sleep

[LordAlmightyLord137]

I'm thinking I understand Sleep-Wake-Junk as it applies to disregarding events. But what I'd like to ask is typically can you experience SWJ while in REM stage sleep? Not at the beginning of REM, not at the end of REM, but midway during a period of REM stage.

[ChicagoGranny]

can you experience SWJ while in REM stage sleep?

You could have a brief arousal in REM and fall back into REM. Not sure that is what you are asking.

How would you know you are in REM?

What's your concern?

[palerider]

I'm thinking I understand Sleep-Wake-Junk as it applies to disregarding events. But what I'd like to ask is typically can you experience SWJ while in REM stage sleep? Not at the beginning of REM, not at the end of REM, but midway during a period of REM stage.

SWJ, or more technically known as "Transition Apnea" (look it up) are not something you'll experience during sleep (that's the whole "W" in "SWJ".

[LordAlmightyLord137]

How would you know you are in REM?

Smart watch
At first I was skeptical that a device worn on my wrist was reliable, but comparing the REM times reported on the smart watch with REM times reported on in-lab sleep study, I was satisfied that the smart watch does as good a job reporting the start and stop times of REM stage sleep as the NPSG.
Pleasingly surprised.

Later did the same "experiment" with my wife's NPSG (using a different watch) and got similar matching results.

[ChicagoGranny]

Smart watch
At first I was skeptical that a device worn on my wrist was reliable, but comparing the REM times reported on the smart watch with REM times reported on in-lab sleep study, I was satisfied that the smart watch does as good a job reporting the start and stop times of REM stage sleep as the NPSG.

You don't say which smart watch brand or model. This study found six popular wearable devices were accurately determining sleep/awake. However, none were accurately determining sleep stages ---- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36016077/

[LordAlmightyLord137]

You don't say which smart watch brand or model.

An Apple and a Garmin.
It don't know about your study (don't even understand what 89% means).
All I can tell you is that the watch correctly identified 3 periods of REM. When I compared the start/stop times for each period the watch was within 60 seconds of the REM periods reported on the PSG.
Maybe I just got a really good watch!

[ChicagoGranny]

It don't know about your study (don't even understand what 89% means).

89% was the accuracy for identifying sleep/awake. The accuracy for identifying sleep stages was 53% for Apple and 50% for Garmin.

[LordAlmightyLord137]

89% was the accuracy for identifying sleep/awake. The accuracy for identifying sleep stages was 53% for Apple and 50% for Garmin.

That still doesn't tell me anything about what was measured and how accuracy was calculated, BUT somewhat of a distraction and beside the point.
(BTW, REM is never mentioned in the abstract - perhaps you have the whole article)

On Topic:
I've been lead to believe that "wake" events should be disregarded. So, for example, rolling over in bed could be considered an arousal/wake and therefore an event, such as a clear airway apnea, immediately following the "roll over" is likely not a respiratory event and ought not be scored as such. This is what the sleep tech who did my NPSG told me.

So my question is: Can a person have an spontaneous arousal while in REM stage?
Perhaps stated another way: Should CPAP/APAP users be skeptical of events that occur during REM, regardless of the machine's algorithms?

[Rubicon]

So my question is: Can a person have an spontaneous arousal while in REM stage?

Yes.