Question about Ecoflow Delta power backup, and Aircurve 10 Vauto

[wannasmile]

First let me say I already researched this topic, read some webpages about electrical stuff, and read another thread on this forum, but I'm still a bit confused and unsure of the solution to my specific situation, which is why I'm posting this thread. I'm not great at math and all the electrical terms are just over my head, plus I got confused by some talk about special power adapters.

I have an Aircurve 10 Vauto and need a power backup in case the power goes out.

I just bought an Ecoflow Delta, which supplies 1260Wh / 1800W via AC Outlets.

My questions are:

1. Can I use the standard power supply / plug which came with my Aircurve to plug directly into the Ecoflow's AC outlets? The power supply is labeled as 90W AC adapter. It takes AC input 100-240V, 1.0-1.5A, and it outputs DC 24V 3.75A. So can that work directly with the Ecoflow AC ouputs? Or is there some other special adapter I have to buy (and if so, what is it)?

2. Is there an easy calculation to find out how many hours my machine will run on the Ecoflow Delta, both without humidifier and with humidifier and climateline hose? I found a document which says the Aircurve 10 VAuto, at a pressure of epap 8, ps 6, max ipap 25 uses 9Wh by itself, 23wh with humidifer, and 41wh with humidifer and climateline hose. My pressure settings are 17-22 (5 PS), so I'm not sure how much power exactly that would consume, or even how to calculate exactly the hours with the power bank I purchased. I guess it's not super important but it would be nice to know what to expect.

3. In case anyone is familiar with the Ecoflow Delta, two questions. (a) can I leave it plugged into the wall and draw power through it from the wall outlet when the house power is normal, and then have it switch to the Ecoflow internal battery when the power goes out? or must I plug my machine into the Ecoflow only when the power is out? and (2) is there any auto-off setting on the Ecoflow which might shut my Aircurve off after X hours of use? And if so can I turn that feature off?

4. Is there anything else I should know about this topic? Or any tips you'd like to share?

Thank you for any assistance

[lynninnj]

First let me say I already researched this topic, read some webpages about electrical stuff, and read another thread on this forum, but I'm still a bit confused and unsure of the solution to my specific situation, which is why I'm posting this thread. I'm not great at math and all the electrical terms are just over my head, plus I got confused by some talk about special power adapters.

I have an Aircurve 10 Vauto and need a power backup in case the power goes out.

I just bought an Ecoflow Delta, which supplies 1260Wh / 1800W via AC Outlets.

My questions are:

1. Can I use the standard power supply / plug which came with my Aircurve to plug directly into the Ecoflow's AC outlets? The power supply is labeled as 90W AC adapter. It takes AC input 100-240V, 1.0-1.5A, and it outputs DC 24V 3.75A. So can that work directly with the Ecoflow AC ouputs? Or is there some other special adapter I have to buy (and if so, what is it)?

2. Is there an easy calculation to find out how many hours my machine will run on the Ecoflow Delta, both without humidifier and with humidifier and climateline hose? I found a document which says the Aircurve 10 VAuto, at a pressure of epap 8, ps 6, max ipap 25 uses 9Wh by itself, 23wh with humidifer, and 41wh with humidifer and climateline hose. My pressure settings are 17-22 (5 PS), so I'm not sure how much power exactly that would consume, or even how to calculate exactly the hours with the power bank I purchased. I guess it's not super important but it would be nice to know what to expect.

3. In case anyone is familiar with the Ecoflow Delta, two questions. (a) can I leave it plugged into the wall and draw power through it from the wall outlet when the house power is normal, and then have it switch to the Ecoflow internal battery when the power goes out? or must I plug my machine into the Ecoflow only when the power is out? and (2) is there any auto-off setting on the Ecoflow which might shut my Aircurve off after X hours of use? And if so can I turn that feature off?

4. Is there anything else I should know about this topic? Or any tips you'd like to share?

Thank you for any assistance

like you, my eyes glaze up and I consider myself a smart gal.

I just got a Delta 2 which has slightly different specs. Here’s what you can do while waiting for more precise answers.

Download the app (I assume there’s one for yours too) so you can mask up, lay down, and plug in while watching what is going out. You can sleep with it for a night and get some ideas. The display will tell what time is left at that draw, roughly. You don’t want to run it to zero but you will get a good idea. Iirc mine said I would get around 20hrs the way I normally use it with heat and humidity. The app makes it easy to monitor.

You can plug right into the front with cpap and it should work like any other outlet.

My understanding of the adapter is that the 12v adapter may allow you to get more juice out of the delta by drawing slower/more efficiently. Again we have different machines plugging into different devices so I will leave the broad stroke there.

My understanding is that you can use them like an uninterrupted power source but you may not want to leave it plugged in 365/24/7. Maybe just when storms are expected (yours has charge thru capability)It’s just not good for the battery. I don’t know if you have auto start on your pap but that’s the only way it would work as UPS without having to turn it back on. and if you’re going to have to turn it back on you might as will have to plug it in after an outage rather than leaving it in 24/7.

That’s about all I can say for sure. My eyes are glazing as I look at solar panels. I’m irritated at myself because this week amazon and ebay both have the ecoflow line at deep discount and the refurbished items even deeper. I haven’t figured my solar needs yet so I’m not ready to buy. But good luck! hth it’s a start at least.

[Dog Slobber]

I just bought an Ecoflow Delta, which supplies 1260Wh / 1800W via AC Outlets.

Nice unit.

1. Can I use the standard power supply / plug which came with my Aircurve to plug directly into the Ecoflow's AC outlets? The power supply is labeled as 90W AC adapter. It takes AC input 100-240V, 1.0-1.5A, and it outputs DC 24V 3.75A. So can that work directly with the Ecoflow AC ouputs? Or is there some other special adapter I have to buy (and if so, what is it)?

Yes you can, but it is not the most efficient way to supply power to your CPAP.

CPAPs use DC power, your regular power brick converts from the wall outlet, 120V AC to 24V DC, thith the conversion will be some power loss. Not a big deal because we're drawing of AC.

But when using a battery, the Battery powerstation is 12V DC, then inverting to 120V AC, then the ResMed power brick converts the 120V AV to 24 V DC. The inversion to AC and then back to DC are not necessary and both will result in some capacity loss.

Ideally, you want the ResMed DC-DC converter which will convert from 12 to 24 V.

I've heard it said that using the DC-DC converter results in about 40% more efficiency.

2. Is there an easy calculation to find out how many hours my machine will run on the Ecoflow Delta, both without humidifier and with humidifier and climateline hose? I found a document which says the Aircurve 10 VAuto, at a pressure of epap 8, ps 6, max ipap 25 uses 9Wh by itself, 23wh with humidifer, and 41wh with humidifer and climateline hose. My pressure settings are 17-22 (5 PS), so I'm not sure how much power exactly that would consume, or even how to calculate exactly the hours with the power bank I purchased. I guess it's not super important but it would be nice to know what to expect.

Here's ResMed's battery guide with capacity draws.

https://document.resmed.com/documents/a ... lo_eng.pdf

3. In case anyone is familiar with the Ecoflow Delta, two questions. (a) can I leave it plugged into the wall and draw power through it from the wall outlet when the house power is normal, and then have it switch to the Ecoflow internal battery when the power goes out? or must I plug my machine into the Ecoflow only when the power is out? and (2) is there any auto-off setting on the Ecoflow which might shut my Aircurve off after X hours of use? And if so can I turn that feature off?

3(a). Yes, this is how I would suggest you use it. The EcoFlow Delta is actually an SPS, not a UPS (more on this in my response to Lynn). An SPS draws power from the power source, not the batteries. Then switches upon source power loss. This way you should you have a power-failure you will sleep right through. For me this is desirable.

3(2). Not sure why you would want that?

My understanding is that you can use them like an uninterrupted power source but you may not want to leave it plugged in 365/24/7. Maybe just when storms are expected (yours has charge thru capability)

Here's the difference between Uninteruprible UPS and Standby - SPS (the delta is an SPS but refers to itself as an Emergency Power Supply(EPS)

UPS - always draws off the battery, this provides built in power line conditioning and there is no switchover time. No time interruptions, continuous power.

SPS/EPS - Draws power from the input power source, not the batteries. There will be a slight delay when switching to battery. This interruption can sometime cause problems with devices. The Delta claims a 30 ms switchover time. I don't know if this is enough time to interrupt a CPAP session

SPS are actually better for battery because there is no draw on them. UPS continuously use the batteries, therefore there is some drain.

I don’t know if you have auto start on your pap but that’s the only way it would work as UPS without having to turn it back on. and if you’re going to have to turn it back on you might as will have to plug it in after an outage rather than leaving it in 24/7.

No, this isn't how ResMed's work.

A relatively unknown feature of ResMed's is: Should power be removed from them while they are blowing, when power is restored, they will start blowing again. This is a design feature specifically designed to continue a session should there be a power interruption and it is independent of the SmartStart setting.

Try it.

Put your mask on, start a session then unplug the resmed. Count to 10, then plug it back in, it will start blowing again. You can even take you mask off to prove it's not SmartStart.

I would do another test.

Plug your ResMed into your Battery. Start a CPAP session, then unplug the Battery. The watch the power display. Does the switchover delay interrupt the CPAP session.

If I had a Delta, and I'm seriously considering getting one. I would:
Continuously keep my CPAP plugged in. Take advantage of it keeping battery topped up without draining them and sleeping through a power failure.

[lynninnj]

I just bought an Ecoflow Delta, which supplies 1260Wh / 1800W via AC Outlets.

Nice unit.

1. Can I use the standard power supply / plug which came with my Aircurve to plug directly into the Ecoflow's AC outlets? The power supply is labeled as 90W AC adapter. It takes AC input 100-240V, 1.0-1.5A, and it outputs DC 24V 3.75A. So can that work directly with the Ecoflow AC ouputs? Or is there some other special adapter I have to buy (and if so, what is it)?

Yes you can, but it is not the most efficient way to supply power to your CPAP.

CPAPs use DC power, your regular power brick converts from the wall outlet, 120V AC to 24V DC, thith the conversion will be some power loss. Not a big deal because we're drawing of AC.

But when using a battery, the Battery powerstation is 12V DC, then inverting to 120V AC, then the ResMed power brick converts the 120V AV to 24 V DC. The inversion to AC and then back to DC are not necessary and both will result in some capacity loss.

Ideally, you want the ResMed DC-DC converter which will convert from 12 to 24 V.

I've heard it said that using the DC-DC converter results in about 40% more efficiency.

2. Is there an easy calculation to find out how many hours my machine will run on the Ecoflow Delta, both without humidifier and with humidifier and climateline hose? I found a document which says the Aircurve 10 VAuto, at a pressure of epap 8, ps 6, max ipap 25 uses 9Wh by itself, 23wh with humidifer, and 41wh with humidifer and climateline hose. My pressure settings are 17-22 (5 PS), so I'm not sure how much power exactly that would consume, or even how to calculate exactly the hours with the power bank I purchased. I guess it's not super important but it would be nice to know what to expect.

Here's ResMed's battery guide with capacity draws.

https://document.resmed.com/documents/a ... lo_eng.pdf

3. In case anyone is familiar with the Ecoflow Delta, two questions. (a) can I leave it plugged into the wall and draw power through it from the wall outlet when the house power is normal, and then have it switch to the Ecoflow internal battery when the power goes out? or must I plug my machine into the Ecoflow only when the power is out? and (2) is there any auto-off setting on the Ecoflow which might shut my Aircurve off after X hours of use? And if so can I turn that feature off?

3(a). Yes, this is how I would suggest you use it. The EcoFlow Delta is actually an SPS, not a UPS (more on this in my response to Lynn). An SPS draws power from the power source, not the batteries. Then switches upon source power loss. This way you should you have a power-failure you will sleep right through. For me this is desirable.

3(2). Not sure why you would want that?

My understanding is that you can use them like an uninterrupted power source but you may not want to leave it plugged in 365/24/7. Maybe just when storms are expected (yours has charge thru capability)

Here's the difference between Uninteruprible UPS and Standby - SPS (the delta is an SPS but refers to itself as an Emergency Power Supply(EPS)

UPS - always draws off the battery, this provides built in power line conditioning and there is no switchover time. No time interruptions, continuous power.

SPS/EPS - Draws power from the input power source, not the batteries. There will be a slight delay when switching to battery. This interruption can sometime cause problems with devices. The Delta claims a 30 ms switchover time. I don't know if this is enough time to interrupt a CPAP session

SPS are actually better for battery because there is no draw on them. UPS continuously use the batteries, therefore there is some drain.

I don’t know if you have auto start on your pap but that’s the only way it would work as UPS without having to turn it back on. and if you’re going to have to turn it back on you might as will have to plug it in after an outage rather than leaving it in 24/7.

No, this isn't how ResMed's work.

A relatively unknown feature of ResMed's is: Should power be removed from them while they are blowing, when power is restored, they will start blowing again. This is a design feature specifically designed to continue a session should there be a power interruption and it is independent of the SmartStart setting.

Try it.

Put your mask on, start a session then unplug the resmed. Count to 10, then plug it back in, it will start blowing again. You can even take you mask off to prove it's not SmartStart.

I would do another test.

Plug your ResMed into your Battery. Start a CPAP session, then unplug the Battery. The watch the power display. Does the switchover delay interrupt the CPAP session.

If I had a Delta, and I'm seriously considering getting one. I would:
Continuously keep my CPAP plugged in. Take advantage of it keeping battery topped up without draining them and sleeping through a power failure.

thank you for the explainer. I will have to try that experiment when I get a few minutes.

If you’re seriously thinking of buying right now, they are having sales on both eBay and Amazon. You can even buy a refurbished on eBay for a good deal cheaper. I prefer the lithium iron phosphate over the lithium ion because of the length of the battery life.

The refurbished were definitely a deep discount. When I bought my Delta two it was 999. I found it somewhere that I could get $50 cash back in one place and 50 cash back for my credit card. of course the day after I bought it they were giving away free solar panels with it.

I just took the deep dive and bought the 220 w bifacial solar panel from ecoflow. I couldn’t decide if I wanted two of 160 w or one of the 220 bifacial. eBay also has deep discounts on these as well if you don’t mind refurbished.

I will let you know the results of the science experiment later. I usually keep the EcoFlow wrapped up in its case on a litle dolly but I can open it up and run a test.

[wannasmile]

@Dog Slobber

Thanks for the detailed reply. Very helpful. I did further research based on what you said. I found some info which I feel I should bring up, as it changes things a bit:

I read the manual carefully regarding the "entry-level UPS mode," where you have the Ecoflow plugged into the AC wall outlet and then have it switch to the battery when the wall grid power goes out - I read it several times actually. My understanding is that will only work with the AC power outlets on the Ecoflow. So if I were to have the special DC to DC converter from my Resmed to the Ecoflow, it wouldn't work that way. It would be continually drawing off the Ecoflow's battery from the DC outlet. So in that regard, it seems like a better idea to use the standard AC adapter which came with my Resmed, plugged to the AC outlets on the Ecoflow, so as to draw directly from the grid while power is up.

I will test the Ecoflow with my Aircurve and watch how much power is drawn, how long it lasts, and so on (and I will probably try with and without the humidifier and climateline hose). Then I will be able to tell how many nights I could get from one charge. If it's enough time, I could probably live with the loss of efficiency from having the double power conversion (using the AC power supply and outlets on the Ecoflow). If it's super limited, I may investigate further on the idea of using the DC to DC converter.

Regarding an actual UPS like what I have for my computers, those protect sensitive electronics from surges and similar issues, protecting them from getting fried. I am a little concerned what would happen with the Ecoflow in a situation like that, like a power anomaly, spike, etc - I'm afraid it could fry my Resmed - I don't know if Ecoflow has an actual surge protection feature, not to mention the switchover is slower compared to a true UPS. The manual recommends that the Ecoflow NOT be used as a UPS long term; should only be used for emergency short term use.

I also am unsure of the 30ms switchover, how that would affect the Resmed. I could test it but I'm scared. To be honest I don't like the idea of purposely cutting power to my unit while it's running. I guess that's what would happen with a power outage but I'd rather not do it on purpose. I wish these damn Bilevel machines weren't so expensive. Anyway, the manual recommends not using the UPS mode for sensitive items.

The auto power off I asked about was something I did NOT want (I was asking if there was such a feature so I could turn it OFF). I read somewhere, someone said they had one of these battery units and if the power draw was below a certain amount for a period of time, the unit automatically shuts off. I wasn't sure where I saw that or which battery unit it was. Anyway, I doubt it will be an issue.

Based on all of this info, I am most inclined to (1) use the normal power adapter which came with my Resmed, plugged into the Ecoflow's AC outputs, and (2) only use the Ecoflow when I suspect there may be power outages (stormy weather predicted or otherwise shows up) or in the event an outage actually occurs. I'd rather have my Aircurve plugged in long term to the actual APC UPS unit I have it on now, for better surge protection and temporary switchover if needed. And then if necessary swap it over to the Ecoflow.

Just my findings and thoughts. I will continue to think this through more. Also I will report back after I receive my new battery unit and test it.

[Dog Slobber]

I read the manual carefully regarding the "entry-level UPS mode," where you have the Ecoflow plugged into the AC wall outlet and then have it switch to the battery when the wall grid power goes out - I read it several times actually. My understanding is that will only work with the AC power outlets on the Ecoflow. So if I were to have the special DC to DC converter from my Resmed to the Ecoflow, it wouldn't work that way. It would be continually drawing off the Ecoflow's battery from the DC outlet.

This is what the what page says about the Ecoflow Delta under FAQ:
https://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-p ... 8995456073

Can DELTA be used as an uninterrupted power source

It can be an emergency power source (EPS), which will have the same result as UPS for most electronics. Here's the difference. When your DELTA is plugged into the wall, anything plugged into it gets power from the grid, not its battery. If power from the grid stops, DELTA automatically switches to its battery supply mode within 30 milliseconds. That means anything connected will not have power for 30 milliseconds, which may mean sensitive electronics like desktop computers and data servers turn off. Test your devices individually to see if they need UPS to stay powered.

This is where I'm drawing the EPS information from. "Anything plugged into it", suggests both AC and DC.

[palerider]

@Dog Slobber

Thanks for the detailed reply. Very helpful. I did further research based on what you said. I found some info which I feel I should bring up, as it changes things a bit:

I read the manual carefully regarding the "entry-level UPS mode," where you have the Ecoflow plugged into the AC wall outlet and then have it switch to the battery when the wall grid power goes out - I read it several times actually. My understanding is that will only work with the AC power outlets on the Ecoflow. So if I were to have the special DC to DC converter from my Resmed to the Ecoflow, it wouldn't work that way. It would be continually drawing off the Ecoflow's battery from the DC outlet.

Apparently it's unsuitable for UPS type applications, just ask lynn

[Dog Slobber]

Which would be continually topped up by the charger in the unit, where's the problem?

While not deep discharge cycles contributes a lot to reducing a batteries life, but continuous shallow discharge cycles aren't free and contribute reduced life.

Given the choice of:

• A UPS with continous shallow discharges/charge cycles,
  and
• An SPS with no draw on them with only self-discharge/charge cycles

The SPS will shed less capacity because they are effectively dormant.

[Deplorable]

There's a fellow on YouTube, will prowse, does a lot of solar stuff. Reviews, builds ect. Using his info, I built my own system. 100ahr lifepo battery, 20 amp mppt charge controller, 500w pure sine inverter, and a variable voltage power supply for charging from the grid. Also, 2 x 100w panels. Used it in august, camping 4 nights at a music festival. Using the inverter and the resmed 120v ps, it worked perfect.
Saved a few $ by diy and I can change components as needed. Thinking about another battery and a 24v 6000w split phase inverter plus 4 more panels. It would be able to power my well pump and home for a day or so per charge cycle.

[palerider]

Which would be continually topped up by the charger in the unit, where's the problem?

While not deep discharge cycles contributes a lot to reducing a batteries life, but continuous shallow discharge cycles aren't free and contribute reduced life.

That's true but the presumption is that the DC load from the CPAP would be more than made up by the charger input in the device, thus leading to no shallow discharge during normal operation.

[lynninnj]

Which would be continually topped up by the charger in the unit, where's the problem?

While not deep discharge cycles contributes a lot to reducing a batteries life, but continuous shallow discharge cycles aren't free and contribute reduced life.

That's true but the presumption is that the DC load from the CPAP would be more than made up by the charger input in the device, thus leading to no shallow discharge during normal operation.

I think the paas through charging is only for the AC outlets on the delta. I think that means with DC outlet being used it would rely totally upon battery power?

[palerider]

I think

We haven't seen much evidence of that.

[lynninnj]

I think

We haven't seen much evidence of that.

That’s because you’re a curmudgeon.

Any comment on errors of fact or analysis or just your usual ad hominem attack?

I prefer logic myself but you do you.

[palerider]

I think

We haven't seen much evidence of that.

That’s because you’re a curmudgeon.

Any comment on errors of fact or analysis or just your usual ad hominem attack?

I prefer logic myself but you do you.

Ok, let's put some logic to this.

LiFePo4 batteries are charged by chargers that cut off when the batteries hit a specific voltage.

They aren't just going to STAY off. as soon as you start pulling some current from that live circuit, the charger will supply current, up to it's capacity. The only time you'll deplete the batteries is when you're pulling more than the charger can supply.

Now, if you tell me you're an electrical engineer and you've worked with power circuits your whole career, then I'll be interested in what you "think".

Until then, I will continue to believe that Granny has you dead to rights.

cheers.

[lynninnj]

I think

We haven't seen much evidence of that.

That’s because you’re a curmudgeon.

Any comment on errors of fact or analysis or just your usual ad hominem attack?

I prefer logic myself but you do you.

Ok, let's put some logic to this.

LiFePo4 batteries are charged by chargers that cut off when the batteries hit a specific voltage.

They aren't just going to STAY off. as soon as you start pulling some current from that live circuit, the charger will supply current, up to it's capacity. The only time you'll deplete the batteries is when you're pulling more than the charger can supply.

Now, if you tell me you're an electrical engineer and you've worked with power circuits your whole career, then I'll be interested in what you "think".

Until then, I will continue to believe that Granny has you dead to rights.

cheers.

On page 10 (15 of 18 pdf) it says it shouldn’t be used long term as a UPS.

You don’t need to be an electrical engineering when you have the owners manual.



(mean girls unite! No surprise really. Polite society awaits you- one day. )