Need help with deciding on machine purchase

[Karina]

Hi I just joined the board. I have been reading the messages for a while as I am new to using CPAP.

I need help! I have been waiting for many months to get my machine. I have insurance although I'm paying the full price because I have not met my deductible. I was told I would be getting a ResMed airsense 11 and given the price which was about $900. When I showed up to get my machine they had a airsense 10 for her and I was told that's all they had. At first I was reluctant but I had seen some not so great reviews about the newer model and a lot about how great the 10 is so I agreed to that. Now in hindsight I realize the price should have been different for an older model . When I got home I noticed the machine had a few little scuffs and so I decided to check the run hours and there's almost 400 hours! I called and I spoke with someone and I'm supposed to get a call back from someone higher up about the matter.

My question to those of you with more experience is should I accept this machine since I really need it, but maybe negotiate a lower price which would benefit me financially?... or is it too risky for me to take something that's not new that I'm going to have to live with for 5 years because that's how often my insurance would allow me to replace it. I'm concerned about what it's been through from the previous user. I'm obviously extremely upset about being swindled, so having a hard time making a good decision right now. I would really value anyone's input on this matter.

[JLROhio]

Hi I just joined the board. I have been reading the messages for a while as I am new to using CPAP.

I need help! I have been waiting for many months to get my machine. I have insurance although I'm paying the full price because I have not met my deductible. I was told I would be getting a ResMed airsense 11 and given the price which was about $900. When I showed up to get my machine they had a airsense 10 for her and I was told that's all they had. At first I was reluctant but I had seen some not so great reviews about the newer model and a lot about how great the 10 is so I agreed to that. Now in hindsight I realize the price should have been different for an older model . When I got home I noticed the machine had a few little scuffs and so I decided to check the run hours and there's almost 400 hours! I called and I spoke with someone and I'm supposed to get a call back from someone higher up about the matter.

My question to those of you with more experience is should I accept this machine since I really need it, but maybe negotiate a lower price which would benefit me financially?... or is it too risky for me to take something that's not new that I'm going to have to live with for 5 years because that's how often my insurance would allow me to replace it. I'm concerned about what it's been through from the previous user. I'm obviously extremely upset about being swindled, so having a hard time making a good decision right now. I would really value anyone's input on this matter.

1st, let me say Welcome....but you'll get your official "Welcome Message" from @zonker soon enough.

2nd, IMO, I'd rather have a proven workhorse of the AirSense 10 (for her) model instead of the AirSense 11...but that's just me. If you've read some of my recent comments, my main concern is that the AirSense 11 uses the same 4 year old motor from the AirMini (a small portable travel CPAP that does not have longevity built into it based upon what I've read) as opposed to a tried and true motor that was in the AirSense 10 family of CPAP's.

3rd, I'd be PIZZED if I went to a DME and they tried to snooker me into taking a 400hour machine and selling it as new! I'd be on the phone to my State Attorney General and any other consumer protection agency in my state to file a complaint...I'd make their life HE(Double L)!!!! for trying to dupe me.

4th, Now...since you're paying out of pocket...and they tried to screw you, I'd offer them $250 and see if they'd sell you that "USED MACHINE" for that price...again, only cuz they tried to stiff you! You'd be getting a deal at that price and 400 hours is not much... (less than 2 months). Of course, if it smells like cats or smoke...walk!

As to the machine...nothing from the original user gets back into the machine...Air (from the prior owners home) comes in through the side filter, is routed through the machine, into the water tank and out the hose to the user. NONE of the air from the user itself comes back into the machine...

Good Luck...I hope you can navigate through this to your benefit...

[Karina]

Thank you JLROhio... I am very angry about the deception! I am not against a used machine. Had this been presented to me upfront and under different circumstances I would have purchased it for a reasonable price. Because this is being done through insurance it needed to be the prescribed machine and new. I did speak with someone from my insurance and they are investigating this matter further. I feel like a kid who has to return their Christmas gift

[Janknitz]

Yeah, if your insurer is paying, I would call it insurance fraud charging your insurer for a new machine but providing a used one. Hopefully they will investigate your complaint.

OTOH, it's nice to have a machine to use NOW rather than going without for however much longer. So if your insurance is paying the bulk of it, maybe it can be considered a "loaner" until they can provide you with a brand NEW machine?

[JLROhio]

I am very angry about the deception! I am not against a used machine. Had this been presented to me upfront and under different circumstances I would have purchased it for a reasonable price. Because this is being done through insurance it needed to be the prescribed machine and new. I did speak with someone from my insurance and they are investigating this matter further. I feel like a kid who has to return their Christmas gift

I'm waiting for @Pugsy response...I know she can get quite upset when it comes to DME shenanigans. She'll def. have the right response.
There are others here too, and hopefully they'll chime in with advice too.

I wouldn't expect too much from your insurance company - they're only out for their bottom line (and lowering your bottom line)!

[Pugsy]

Insurance really isn't paying but of course the amount would go towards the unmet deductible.

I'm paying the full price because I have not met my deductible.

The going price for a gently used AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her machine is somewhere between 500 and 600 on this forum anyway.
Not that the DME will care but I thought I would just throw that out there.
ResMed machines are in short supply right now (and have been since last summer) because of the worldwide recall for the Philips Respironics cpap machines.

Your choice how you want to proceed but I would at least present the case for a discounted price since it isn't brand new.
The 400 hours itself isn't that big of a deal. Someone here just sold a used machine with over 13K hours on it for 225.
I have bought used machines pretty much my whole cpap life (13 years) because I saved money. But I never paid new price for used though.

The DME may or may not have even checked the machine for hours of use....

I wouldn't pay new price for a used machine though.

[SleepGeek]

My question to those of you with more experience is should I accept this machine since I really need it, but maybe negotiate a lower price which would benefit me financially?... or is it too risky for me to take something that's not new that I'm going to have to live with for 5 years because that's how often my insurance would allow me to replace it. I'm concerned about what it's been through from the previous user. I'm obviously extremely upset about being swindled, so having a hard time making a good decision right now. I would really value anyone's input on this matter.

You did the right thing to contact your insurance (btw -who is your insurance?). I think its up to you if you want to accept the used cpap to get you started but either work on getting a better price or another swap when they get a new cpap in - but get a time frame from them to commit to.

Also get a copy of your equipment order so you know what the doc is asking for and have a copy for future use. IF its not an auto cpap ask for one. You do have a copy of your sleep study right?

Also find out from your insurance what other DME's are in your network since you may want to stop feeding this one and give your money to another equipment supplier which should be another option right now.

[Karina]

So if your insurance is paying the bulk of it, maybe it can be considered a "loaner" until they can provide you with a brand NEW machine?

Insurance is not paying any of it because I have not met my deductible yet. The only benefit I get going through insurance is I get it for the agreed price rather than paying more if I bought it new elsewhere... and of course the money I spend goes towards meeting my deductible.

[Karina]

I wouldn't pay new price for a used machine though.

Me either! And I won't buy a used machine from a deceptive party either, even if it appears to be a good deal.

[Karina]

Also get a copy of your equipment order so you know what the doc is asking for and have a copy for future use. IF its not an auto cpap ask for one. You do have a copy of your sleep study right?

I have the order and I asked when making the appointment to confirm which machine they had for me. I had this bad feeling they would try to give me the wrong model, instead of an auto set. I definitely was not expecting this turn of events! I do have my sleep study also

Also find out from your insurance what other DME's are in your network since you may want to stop feeding this one and give your money to another equipment supplier which should be another option right now.

There were already some red flags even before this happened. My doctor suggested we try another DME but I didn't want to start over at the end of the line, and decided to take my chances. I'm definitely going to look at other options now.

[JLROhio]

... And I won't buy a used machine from a deceptive party either, even if it appears to be a good deal.

Remember...in the end, it's all just business!

If you could talk them into selling it to you for $300 or less, you'd be getting a great deal - for YOU!
What's the worst that can say, No? I would def. mention state agencies that oversee their business practices during your negotiations!

Oh, if I didn't mention it before, in the end, it's all business!

[SleepGeek]

My doctor suggested we try another DME but I didn't want to start over at the end of the line, and decided to take my chances. I'm definitely going to look at other options now.

That's good to know your doc is on your side and can be a big help.
For some reason the sleep business is full of deceit. Let the buyer beware.

The suppliers are licensed thru the state Health Dept I believe.

[chunkyfrog]

There is only one Airsense 10 "for her", and it is an autoset.

[JLROhio]

I called and I spoke with someone and I'm supposed to get a call back from someone higher up about the matter.

I hope you follow-up and give us a rundown of how it all works out.
I'm interested in how long it takes someone, higher up, to give you a call...and how many days they take to call.

There is NO ONE, so busy, at any company that it takes more than that day or the next day early, to call a customer back.
You should be near the top of their call back priority!

[SJ-Paddler]

When I got home I noticed the machine had a few little scuffs and so I decided to check the run hours and there's almost 400 hours!

You know I got mine 51 days ago and I did not think to check the mileage. I looked brand new in the case and everything. I show 483 hours but adding up the average usage backwards for 51 days I get only 433 hours meaning the machine had 50 hours on it. I wonder if this is a common thing with Resmed Airsense 10 Autosets being in short demand.

But in reality is 50 hours on a new machine any different than getting a new car with 50 miles on the odometer?

Has anyone else checked their machine when they got it or backtracked their hours to see how many it had when new?