ResMed VS Phillips

[racprops]

The million-dollar question is what sleep machine I will be using in the future.

For me this is a major question as I need a very limited type of machine, I need an ASV system and there are only two makers, Phillips (which I currently am using, with the offending foam removed) And a Company called ResMed.

Which because of the betrayal by Phillips, everyone now hates: So support for Resmed is top of the responses.

So I am asking has anyone at any time tested and compared Phillips and ResMed machines side by side??

Has anyone tested the two brands of machines and confirmed that both systems read the correct readouts?? IE the Same Obstructions and Centrals ETC.

As in the same MILES per the same Gallons…If you compare US MPG to England’s MPG, the Imperial Gallon is not the same as the US Gallon: thus in a real case a car there that was reported as getting 1000 Miles per a full tank of gasoline would be rated as only 850 Miles per a full tank of gasoline on the US gallons.

So are both brands reporting the same results??

Rich

[palerider]

The million-dollar question is what sleep machine I will be using in the future.

For me this is a major question as I need a very limited type of machine, I need an ASV system and there are only two makers, Phillips (which I currently am using, with the offending foam removed) And a Company called ResMed.

Which because of the betrayal by Phillips, everyone now hates: So support for Resmed is top of the responses.

Resmed's ASV has always been the better machine, Resmed invented the ASV, Philips Respironics has always been #2 in the ASV world.

I'm going to be selling four Resmed ASVs in the very near future, just saying.

So I am asking has anyone at any time tested and compared Phillips and ResMed machines side by side??

There have been comparisons in the past here on the forum by people who've been lucky enough to have one of each, but those have been rare, due to the cost of the machines.

[racprops]

The million-dollar question is what sleep machine I will be using in the future.

For me this is a major question as I need a very limited type of machine, I need an ASV system and there are only two makers, Phillips (which I currently am on, with the offending foam removed) And a Company called ResMed.

As you stated these are very costly machines, so a major concern.

Which because of the betrayal by Phillips, everyone now hates: So support for Resmed is top of the responses.

And because of the recall, I too was highly motivated to switch, then I ran into a few walls.

I am spoiled by ASV machines; they are like driving a Luxury Car compared to a VW Bug...SO my experience is vastly different.

The bottom line for me is: without the issue of the bad foam, which even with ResMed’s Claims that their foam (Yes Virginia, there is foam in the ResMed machines) in their systems are safe, once the foam is removed from the Phillips system, it is now clean and safe, (if of course, YOUR foam is still clean and solid, not disintegrating as mine was) perhaps safer than a ResMed system (with their foam), and as safe as is anything made of plastics can be.

Palrider posted that Resmed invented ASV, OK but that does not make their version the best, I spend a LOT of my Personal time (in my opinion) improving many things I buy and own. I question that Phillips may have improved the ASV?

So with the foam removed it now comes down to how the two machines work, and which does the best job of treatment.

One problem is the New Dreamstation now the inception of my medical reports, I will not have any machine I couldn't see my data daily with all the detail in graph form, as I am doing my own treatment.

Also, I have had contact with both ResMed AND Phillips, trust me BOTH companies are cold-hearted noncaring companies. Both are pushing to stop repairs to these machines, to stop reselling them, and limit their use to just five years at which time you are to replace them.

Think how that would sound with my car. They are already pushing that tires are bad in 6 years here in AZ. At least that has some good reason, dry rot.

So I have been able to compare the two brands, I tested a ResMed BiPAP and a ResMed ASV machines VS A Dreamstation (DS) BiPAP and my 8 years of using Phillips Systems and Dreamstation APAP, BiPAP and BiPAP Auto SV (ASV) And:

First, there are my problems with ResMed's standard operation; slow start, and controlled slow switching from the exhale to the rising to full pressure on inhaling.

I find there is NOTHING that can be done about that. I can handle the slow startup cycle; it is only a few breaths worth of delay. (ResMed does NOT have any adjustments for that)

I really run into a problem with the slow rise of the pressure and airflow/volume during my inhaling. I feel as I need to work/suck in each breath VS Phillips nice solid helping push.

Going by ResMed’s own bar graph I see that I (seemly, just in case I am wrong) do not reach full pressure unless/until a long intake/inhale of breath is taken.

I also see that if I relax and breathe normally I often do not take a long enough breath to reach my upper control pressure.


I fully believe I need this higher pressure to control my Centrals and Hypopneas and this lack will allow them to happen.

I also found the response time to my changing from inhale to exhaling bothersome. It is Too slow or not even there.

The next was a bit disturbing, I found myself not breathing. I kept finding I had to think of taking a breath..I just seem to forget to breathe…and I was wide awake.

This kept happening as I tried to relax, I was waiting for something…

Then I figured that I was waiting for the machine to read a very faint and small impulse to draw a breath. As My Dreamstation does that. It seems to anticipate my inhale breath, it almost seems to be breathing for me, but IF I hold my breath it does nothing…so I am in control.

At that point, I switched right away back to my Dreamstation to see if it works and everything is AOK. I was breathing normally.

I really wish ResMed systems were adjustable. Especially the ResMed ASV.

At this point, I seem to be the only person to try to do a side-by-side comparison....

Comparing the settings between ResMed and Phillips ASVs.

Phillips has 11 Settings

ResMed has 3 Settings….ONLY three.

Personally when it comes to taking care of my life during my sleeping, I kind of feel safer with a machine that seems more serious about doing the job and has 11 controls and settings VS only three settings and demands that I TRUST in the program.

Trust the program is OK UNLESS....

Again I feel there is NOTHING that can be done about that. ResMed ASV, is a take it or leave it… in TOTAL Control….

Then there is with the BiPAP Model S: I tested, this machine has some settings I can adjust once the AUTOMATIC Easy Breath is turned off.

I call it a Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hide machine, with the Easy Breath auto control off it is too harsh, it punches you in the face with pressure pops.

I read the manual and found little help and some slight hints and tried again the next night and I did calm down the pop pressure on the switch from exhaling to only popping at the end of an inhale but it was still there. I did try each setting one at a time. And nothing worked right.

SO that machine is worthless to me. Other than for Parts.

The one thing I really need is very full instructions as to what and how each setting changes things AND how they all interact with one and another. The Clinician Manuals are nearly worthless.

This made me think, if ResMed can make a system with this much bad behavior, one that even I cannot tame and tune, and I have been tuning my systems for 8 years, how much can I trust them in total control??

One argument presented has been people getting better reports and AHIs!!

BUT that raises the question of can we really trust comparing reports from Phillips to ResMed's, I question if they read the very same things...a mile per mile, gallon VS Gallon as it were, I hope to find out.

SevereApnea on Apnea Board: really helped me in my research on the working differences between the systems https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZuXKZp ... 4Gm7Y/view

I am still reading the 13 pages of deep data.

I am already seeing what I have been asking and talking about. There are very real differences between the systems on how they work with and read Apneas.

The harder part will be to figure which system might be better. If that matters. So far this report tells a lot on HOW different these systems are from each another, but they do not give any options on which is better or even best.

On the other hand, I really like the ResMed body, especially the Humidifier section: the water tank holds double the water.

AND it is a part of the main body NOT alone housing like the Phillips system. There are connections to make and which can break.

The water tank is easy to spill (ResMed tank is better a more close tank) and the lid catch on the Dreamstation is prone to failure, and the hose attachment is prone to getting worn and losing its tight fit and both the cover and the hose attachment can become noisy, clicking with each breath.

None of these problems are a part of the ResMed system so it does not happen.

This part is so much better than the Phillips system I am dreaming of combining the two systems somehow. I may yet build a Frankenstein machine...

I am seeking answers to these questions.

And one Palerider raised: Are all versions/models of ResMed ASV the same??

Rich

[chunkyfrog]

Yes, Virginia; there is foam in Resmed machines.
But it's not the same foam!
Missed that, eh?
The cheapest foams are polyurethane--(which is why Respironics has used it.)
Polyethylene, polyester, and latex are only a sample of the hundreds
of other materials formed into foams--
Resmed is using a better foam than Respironics.
I guess they think we are worth it.

[racprops]

Did I not say they Claim it is better?? And didn't I say IF you want to trust them?? And I know all foam will break down sooner or later.

As in " which even with ResMed’s Claims that their foam (Yes Virginia, there is foam in the ResMed machines) in their systems are safe,"

One major question is what happens with their foam and a SoClean type of an device, after All three major CPAP manufacturers have tested Ozone devices on their machines and have determined the corrosive effects of Ozone cause premature failures. Philips has the worst case of it, but ResMed and F&P also have stated said devices can cause critical components of your machine to fail.

Also, I did not point out that THEIR Foam IS a filter as well, inside the fan's housing so all air goes through it. Phillips just used it as a quiting agent, air passed under it.

Which should IT start to break down WILL be fed into US.

And

The good news is if you want to remove it all you need is the correct screwdriver, and if you ever want to replace it, same.

No surgery or fishing the foam out.

So let's see if anyone can answer the remaining questions.

Rich

[zonker]

So I am asking has anyone at any time tested and compared Phillips and ResMed machines side by side??

<raises hand>

i'm privileged and have done so. had my resmed in for repair at the start of the year and used my resperonics in the interim.

while this prolly isn't the amount of data you want(i'm not as data driven as you), it will give you a peek-

https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t181 ... isons.html

hope this helps.

[racprops]

Well, that was no help in the end.

Sadly it does confirm what I am seeking a little, that the two companies use different software and can report slightly different scores.

But all the data and tests were done in 2013 (when I started using CPAP (ASV) after a quad bypass) and newer machines are now in use.

As Puglsy posted: "That old S8 algorithm and hyponeas always being higher really isn't something we can use today.
Some people had higher hyponea count with S8 machines and some didn't. The algorithm underwent a total redo with the release of the S9 machine's way of doing anything.
The S8 models didn't offer us any way to examine anything up close (like flow rate or flow limitations) to have any hope of doing anything but making WAGs."

We are now using ResMed 10 machines and Dreamstations.

Interesting but not an answer with an Air Curve 10 ASV VS a Dreamstation ASV.

Thanks anyway, was an interesting read. It did confirm my basic question has some sense to it.

Rich

[zonker]

Well, that was no help in the end.

glad i could be of no help!

[racprops]

Sorry but not completely as your link led to a link about a 2013 test of the current machines.

"Sadly it does confirm what I am seeking a little, that the two companies use different software and can report slightly different scores.

But all the data and tests were done in 2013 (when I started using CPAP (ASV) after a quad bypass) and newer machines are now in use. "

Just the data is so out of date it did not answer the question about the current machines I am working on which is possibly the better.

So it was a kind of backhanded thanks.

Rich

[palerider]

I am spoiled by ASV machines; they are like driving a Luxury Car compared to a VW Bug.

IF one needs them, if not, they're not.

I question that Phillips may have improved the ASV?

Just like they "improved" the foam.

slow start,

So much nicer than the respironics slap in the face.

and controlled slow switching from the exhale to the rising to full pressure on inhaling.

So smooth and natural feeling.

Going by ResMed’s own bar graph I see that I (seemly, just in case I am wrong) do not reach full pressure unless/until a long intake/inhale of breath is taken.

Instead of sitting there staring at the screen, it'd be better to look at the detailed data, you know, with Resmed, ... you can see the pressure changes with each breath.

I fully believe I need this higher pressure to control my Centrals and Hypopneas and this lack will allow them to happen.

I BELIEVE! (facts not needed).

.I just seem to forget to breathe…and I was wide awake.

There was something I was going to say, but I forgot.

I really wish ResMed systems were adjustable. Especially the ResMed ASV.

Well, for everybody else, they JUST WORK

ResMed has 3 Settings….ONLY three.

You sound like the wonks that were harping that ZFS "just managed the disks" in the computer instead of them spending hours doing it all manually... only, ZFS does it better than anybody can *manually* do things. SMH

Personally when it comes to taking care of my life during my sleeping, I kind of feel safer with a machine that seems more serious about doing the job and has 11 controls and settings VS only three settings and demands that I TRUST in the program.

Because Respironics is way behind Resmed in the efficacy of their programming.

Then there is with the BiPAP Model S: I tested, this machine has some settings I can adjust once the AUTOMATIC Easy Breath is turned off.

I call it a Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hide machine, with the Easy Breath auto control off it is too harsh, it punches you in the face with pressure pops.

Change the rise time. PS, Resmed doesn't make "BIPAP" machines, never has, never will.

SO that machine is worthless to me. Other than for Parts.

That's about all a VPAP S is good for.

The one thing I really need is very full instructions as to what and how each setting changes things AND how they all interact with one and another. The Clinician Manuals are nearly worthless.

Yes, the Respironics clinical manuals are pretty much crap, aren't they?

On the other hand, I really like the ResMed body, especially the Humidifier section: the water tank holds double the water.

So, is the rest of your diatribe as inaccurate as this? I think so.
Respironics machines have held 325ml of water for the last decade.
Resmeds hold 380ml.
Basic math... not double.

I give up.

[palerider]

Sorry but not completely as your link led to a link about a 2013 test of the current machines.

Are you on CRACK?

[zonker]

Sorry but not completely as your link led to a link about a 2013 test of the current machines.

Are you on CRACK?

in my thread, dosgslobber placed a link that racprops is talking about.

[palerider]

Sorry but not completely as your link led to a link about a 2013 test of the current machines.

Are you on CRACK?

in my thread, dosgslobber placed a link that racprops is talking about.

So he dug out one thing out of the recent thread and focused on that.
Not surprised.

[racprops]

OMG ARE YOU on crack??

I found a report on a comparison on ResMed VS a Phillips machines, what I have been asking for in this thread.

Sadly it was done 8 years ago and two models older.

Give me a break.

Rich

[billbolton]

And I know all foam will break down sooner or later.

Or not. Where is the evidence to support your assertion?