Testing the possible presence of apnea in a cheap and very safe way

[4betterO2]

Once you have apnea, and you know that obstructive apnea may run in families, it's normal to wonder if a relative of yours has it too.
Sleep apnea generally reduces airflow to the lungs while sleeping, (with possible critical events of life-threatening obstruction): no matter the type of apnea, obstructive or central, this results in the lungs receiving less oxygen than normally needed, and therefore transferring a subnormal amount of oxygen to the blood.

So an easy way to see if apnea might be happening, is to measure oxygen level in the blood during a sizeable amount of time during sleep time, and again during the daytime when one is normally up and about. If there is a visibly strong difference between the two, the person is experiencing lack of oxygen during sleep, and this indicates the possibility of sleep apnea.

Increase of blood oxygen level is in fact the most rewarding benefit of CPAP therapy. While AHI graph studies guide us in a potent, essential, granular way on how to get there and on what the obstacles are, the increasing of O2 blood level is the principal end goal, the actual result, that we are striving to achieve when we use CPAP therapy.

Here are examples of how telling the oxygen blood levels can be: in my case, before CPAP therapy, with sleep apnea my sleep time oxygen % level was around 75, while my daytime level was 97...Using CPAP therapy brought my sleep time oxygen % level from 75 to 95%.

There are many factors that can affect blood oxygen level, but IMHO, comparing the nighttime and daytime levels can most likely give an indication as to whether there is a respiratory problem during sleep, i.e., some type of sleep apnea.

A 24-hour oximeter which measures oxygen blood level when placed on your finger, costs around under $50, it comes with its own graphing software to watch the O2 level over the time of the recording.
Here is a product on eBay as an example, where you can look at more details:
"24 hour Finger Pulse Oximeter,Blood Oxygen,Spo2+USB+Software,Alarm OLED Recharge", item #113812000322

Might be a great Xmas gift

[Pugsy]

So what do you suggest that someone with severe OSA of 60 plus AHI do when they don't have significant oxygen level drops?
I have a good friend on this forum who did an in lab sleep study and her oxygen levels never went below 94% from a normal baseline of 97%.

While a positive result on an overnight pulse ox report might point to a person having apnea...a negative result doesn't necessarily mean they don't have sleep apnea.

[palerider]

blah blah blah

Increase of blood oxygen level is in fact the most rewarding benefit of CPAP therapy.

Not true. Increase in restful sleep is the most rewarding benefit of CPAP therapy.

People can feel like dogshit because their sleep is interrupted constantly all night, and yet they may not have any significant oxygen desaturation.

While AHI graph studies guide us in a potent, essential, granular way on how to get there and on what the obstacles are, the increasing of O2 blood level is the principal end goal, the actual result, that we are striving to achieve when we use CPAP therapy.

You are QUITE wrong.

, but IMHO,

Best you just stop there.

comparing the nighttime and daytime levels can most likely give an indication as to whether there is a respiratory problem during sleep, i.e., some type of sleep apnea.

This is what happens when someone gets a LITTLE bit of knowledge and then runs rampant with it.

Might be a great Xmas gift

Not.

[chunkyfrog]

My initial sleep study showed NO oxygen drops, but for years, I had suffered
from multiple sleep interruptions every night, and the resulting health consequences.
ASS-uming desats or snoring is "always" connected to apnea is
BATCRAP FOOLISH.

[Stilltired01]

I have been on both xpap therapy and oxygen when I sleep for at least 15 years.

I am on ivaps now but even then I still need the supplimental oxygen. So a pulse oximeter doesn't tell me I have sleep apnea.

I don't need any supplimental oxygen when I am awake.

[ChicagoGranny]

Might be a great Xmas gift

More likely will lead to many false negatives and dangerously delayed treatment.

[4betterO2]

Thank you so much for your replies, which saw a lot more in my post, than I wrote, completing it. And especially, which touch upon a deep concern I have, like many others I'm sure, about getting *all* of the great benefits of CPAP therapy, not just better oxygen level. That deserves its own topic. I'm answering here, mostly, to the confines of this post:

I stand corrected on some points, and appreciate the corrective information given to re-establish facts for others:

Increase of blood oxygen level is in fact the most rewarding benefit of CPAP therapy. [...] the increasing of O2 blood level is the principal end goal, the actual result, that we are striving to achieve when we use CPAP therapy.

Not true. Increase in restful sleep is the most rewarding benefit of CPAP therapy.

I didn't know CPAP can help beyond increasing airflow to the lungs, and I'm longing for the benefit you're talking about. I'd be glad to trade off a few points on oxygen level, if I could get better sleep...
So thanks for your post, and you see I stand corrected, and I agree that a generally increased oxygen level, if/when achieved with CPAP, may not be as important to some people, as other benefits offered thru their therapy.
That said, in (maybe rare) circumstances when CPAP thwarts total obstruction events and saves your life, by delivering that air which contains life-saving opxygen, CPAP oxygen gives you then and there, the greatest reward you can get: avoiding death!

I have been on both xpap therapy and oxygen when I sleep for at least 15 years.
I am on ivaps now but even then I still need the supplimental oxygen. So a pulse oximeter doesn't tell me I have sleep apnea.
I don't need any supplimental oxygen when I am awake.

Checking for apnea in the way suggested in this post is only meaningful if there is no prior knowledge of having apnea, and if there is no treatment already ongoing

Might be a great Xmas gift

More likely will lead to many false negatives and dangerously delayed treatment.

...Aww... I didn't think that anyone would buy it only to check to see if they have a distinct level differential, and just to see if they might have apnea...
Along with you, I certainly do hope that anyone using it for the purpose stated in this post, will only use the indicative result that it says it can show, and not deduct on their own, any "reciprocal" answer that is not there.
As for getting it as a Xmas gift... it's great to know what one's O2 level is in general, for basic health maintenance, and also in some cases, like, when being afraid of a drop when having COVID19 symptoms, as the president's story illustrated. These days actually, an oximeter is one of the few new tools people are needing, and using to be able to tell their vital signs to their doctor on a virtual visit, along with a thermometer and a blood pressure monitor. The oximeter shows your pulse also. Just a good thing to have.

While a positive result on an overnight pulse ox report might point to a person having apnea...a negative result doesn't necessarily mean they don't have sleep apnea.

You're exactly right!

I'm glad that responses received did hone on, and showed the light, on what was NOT stated in my post; I didn't want to make it too long and look for and explicit all the unlightened corners regarding the test description in my post: It meant only what it said, as for its usefulness: no other claims, no extrapolations...

To recap,
Like the title of the post states,
testing for a difference of oxygen level between night time and daytime is designed to indicate, i.e., suggest:
__"possible" sleep apnea: Possible means that, not certainty! It implies that even if there is a visible difference in levels, that difference could be caused possibly by apnea, or as well, by other medical facts than apnea
__"presence" of apnea: means it can only signal that, it reveals nothing about the other direction, the absence of apnea
...It is a screening test, not a diagnostic test: it has no definite positive or negative result, it only gives an "indication", and only in one direction

The post was meant for people who are worried about the possibility of apnea (heretofore undiagnosed for them), but are feeling resistant over embarking in a (very pricey for some) sleep study: they can use this narrowly-focused testing tool, which is, as explicited in the post's description of its rationale, limited in usefulness, to circumstances where apnea breathing difficulties cause a drop in blood oxygen level. This test obviously wouldn't help for people who don't get a striking difference of oxygen levels, but at least, it could encourage those who do, to go on further, to obtain the real, and properly differentiating, diagnosis of a sleep study. The purpose of this post was to remind worrying people of a narrowly but still useful screening test, not anywhere presented as a diagnostic test, and it made no claims whatsoever as to its diagnostic value, only its explicitely narrowly focused screening potential.

[Pugsy]

My only problem with using only pulse ox data for screening to help diagnose sleep apnea is when the test is essentially negative and the person doing the test isn't on board and willing to dig deeper and doesn't really want to embrace CPAP should they have apnea and they go dancing around the room with the negative result an use that as an excuse to not dig deeper if they were having other symptoms.
I can see it now because I have seen it before....someone snores like a freight train and bed partner witnesses breathing cessations and the person is in denial about it...so they use the pulse ox and not much happens and they say "see, no desats, I don't have sleep apnea and I wasn't too keen on cpap anyway"...and they don't pursue anything. They blow it off and maybe go untreated.

In my opinion...it definitely has its place but people should understand the limitations and like everything else in life...not perfect in all situations.

BUT.....if you really suspect someone has sleep apnea and they really, really resist going the regular route or even using a machine one night to see what happens BUT they would agree to wearing a little gadget on their finger for one night to get you to shut up....
By all means give it a shot. It's sure better than doing nothing and not knowing. Just understand the limitations that sometimes people can have really bad OSA and not have significant desats. Cross that bridge once you get the person to at least try it and see what happens.

[palerider]

I didn't know CPAP can help beyond increasing airflow to the lungs,

CPAP does NOT increase airflow to the lungs, cpap holds your airway open, so you can *breathe*. Stop spreading misinformation.

and I'm longing for the benefit you're talking about. I'd be glad to trade off a few points on oxygen level, if I could get better sleep...

stop posting about things you don't understand.

As for getting it as a Xmas gift... it's great to know what one's O2 level is in general, for basic health maintenance,

It is *immaterial* for most people which is why they are not commonly acquired items. You have a crackpot idea, let it go.

To recap,

Your post was dumb, and should never have been made.

[jimbud]

4betterO2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:20 pm
To recap,

Your post was dumb, and should never have been made.

Great recap...recap.

JPB