CPAP=exhaustion BIPAP=energy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:51 pm

For me using a CPAP is exhausting. The constant pressure makes it a struggle to breath against. Sort of like breathing through a straw with pressure behind it. Sore lungs, higher resting pulse, tired in the morning, air in my stomach.

BIPAP actually helps me breath. It lowers my resting pulse. I feel like I'm recharging my battery as soon as I put it on and even before I fall asleep. It's sooooo far advanced from CPAP that I feel like I need to let the world know the difference.

I would think that anyone that went from a CPAP to a BIPAP would never ever think of going back to CPAP. Right or wrong let me know.

I'm posting this for open discussion hoping others will chime in. My opinion is "YOU" should go to any length to get a BIPAP as it helps your quality of life, and you're worth it!

CPAP seems like a shortcut (yes it saves lives) but with limitations that could be hindering your health and making breathing a struggle compared to BIPAP.

I understand the cost between a CPAP and a BIPAP but why would anyone use a CPAP if they could have a BIPAP? The excuse that my insurance won't cover it is ludicrous. This is your health, your life, your longevity. If CPAP helped your APNEA then "GREAT" but BIPAP to me is world's apart and has saved my life.

I don't have insurance and a BIPAP was the best investment in my life.

blarg · Post by **blarg** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:48 pm

Did your CPAP you tried have EPR or C-Flex? I feel like I'm normally breathing after a few moments of the pressure, mainly due to the C-Flex being set at 3. (Well, that and that I'm used to breathing against pressure in bagpipes anyway.)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:39 pm

blarg wrote:Did your CPAP you tried have EPR or C-Flex? I feel like I'm normally breathing after a few moments of the pressure, mainly due to the C-Flex being set at 3. (Well, that and that I'm used to breathing against pressure in bagpipes anyway.)

I've never tried C-Flex or ERP (I do have Bi-Flex on my bipap) but looking at some graphs they seem to be allowing some pressure reduction on the begining of exhalation. So I guess the better CPAP's are getting closer to how a bipap works without actually calling the machine a bipap. Better then a standard CPAP but without the full range of dual pressure controls that a BIPAP has to offer. To me it would be like buying a car without a heater or air conditioner. Sure it's 100 times better then walking but it's not ideal for comfort much of the time. After several hours of driving you might wish you had those features and once you have them you would never go back.

I think eventually BIPAP's will replace CPAP's completely. CPAP's could also add features that mimick bipap's to the point where the Manufacturer is just milking the public for the extra $500-$1000 and that BIPAP label. For now Bipap is the way to go. Then CPAP with C-Flex or ERP and then a standard CPAP as a last resort.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:09 pm

You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Under the skin Oranges have segments, that's how I tell them apart.

You are comparing a CPAP with no pressure relief, against a Bi-PAP with pressure relief on two levels and you can tell a difference, go figure. Jim

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:05 pm

Goofproof wrote: You are comparing a CPAP with no pressure relief, against a Bi-PAP with pressure relief on two levels and you can tell a difference, go figure. Jim

That's exactly the point! Most of the people on CPAP have no idea that BIPAP is a GIANT step forward in apnea management. There is a HUGE difference. If your saying CPAP does not compare to BIPAP then you are correct. CPAP is half of what an Apnea machine should be. CPAP is outdated technology that needs upgrading.

Why do doctor's even Prescribe CPAP when BIPAP is readily available? It's like a doctor prescribing Blood Pressure medicine that only lowers Systolic OR Diastolic pressure but not both.

Sleepless in St. Louis · Post by **Sleepless in St. Louis** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:23 pm

Why do doctor's even Prescribe CPAP when BIPAP is readily available?

The easy answer is lack of knowledge on the part of the docs and greed on the part of the DME. But that's not really fair. I can't really blame the DME for not automatically supplying a bi when it is not prescribed. That would not be good for the bottom line. And truth be told, not everyone really needs a bipap. My auto with cflex does the job for me and is helping me manage my osa very nicely thank you. bi paps are great for people who really need the technology for comfortable and effective treatment. I don't at this point.

In my opinion an apap should be given to everyone on xpap treatment. To think that one pressure can be effective every night is naive in my opinion.

heavysnorer · Post by **heavysnorer** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:53 pm

Hi, I am so new to the apnea scene that I'm really just trying to see how all of you out there coping. I first received a Bipap machine after my lab test in August. Here I am in December and could not get used to it. Most likely it is the masks that are a nuisance. Anyhow getting back to the Bipap, everytime I breathed in it made a certain noise and breathing out another, it was somewhat daunting. This machine was rented. Now, I am renting an M series Apap and it's much more quiet or at least the noise is even. I don't have a problem with the machine. But, it's still the mask.
Did you try an APAP? I never tried a CPAP.

justsharon · Post by **justsharon** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:10 pm

I've been on cpap since August with a pressure of 11 now. I turned my ramp time off, made me feel like I wasn't getting enough air. But I have NO difficulty at all exhaling against the cpap. I sleep like a rock and feel great every morning. It works well for me.

Happy sleeping,
Sharon

neversleeps · Post by **neversleeps** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:24 pm

Anonymous wrote:CPAP is half of what an Apnea machine should be. CPAP is outdated technology that needs upgrading.

Straight CPAP technology has already been upgraded. It now includes exhalation relief which you can turn on or off as you see fit. (C-Flex on Respironics machines and EPR on Resmed machines.)

Respironics even makes an APAP and auto BPAP with exhalation relief.

My guess is (if your pressure isn't too high) it might not feel like that big a difference between a machine with exhalation relief and a bi-level machine.

If everyone could trial each machine for a month, I wonder how many would ultimately chose a bi-level. Would be an interesting experiment....

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:23 pm

CPAP without exhale relief, it the low end of the machines, (Bare Bones), not much better than a vacuum sweeper running in reverse, and you want to compare it to the top of the line Bi-PAP, it's not hard to see your faulty reasoning, like I said Apples and Oranges.

Old outdated CPAPs should be junked, but they will be continued to be produced because of the demand of, DME's for a cheap machine that they can overcharge for. They get by with it because the of the few that are compliant and make it over the pitfalls are successful. the ones that fail and fall through the cracks, just pile them in the closet.

For the best patient care, everyone should have APAP, It can be used as CPAP if needed, the extra options are needed, But if you can't afford a top of the line, lower models are around. APAP and Bi-PAP, aren't listed in the Bill of Rights, neither is the 42" Plasma T. V., we get what we can, some of us have to watch Black & White. We all don't pay the same for our medical care, and we all don't have the same level of coverage. Jim

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:35 am

I just switched from a 13 year old CPAP machine to an APAP....and the difference is extraordinary. With the old CPAP at a pressure of 11, I was feeling terrible. This had been this way for at least 4-5 years...I thought there was something else wrong with me....not so. As soon as I switched to this APAP, I started feeling better and better as the weeks progressed. Now, 6 weeks later, I feel fantastic, my AHI's are in the 0.6 1.5 range! There is no question that it was the APAP, keeping me at about 9 instead of the constant 11. Would NEVER go back to straight CPAP.

MandoJohnny · Post by **MandoJohnny** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:25 am

My doc says some patients like constant pressure, some don't. When a patient is is so pressure adverse that they are not willing to get used to constant pressure and they won't be compliant as a result, sometimes APAP is the answer. He says there is no difference in efficacy, though, only compliance. Both types work equally well if they are used equally.

I am one of the pressure-lovers. I have EPR on my machine. I tried it for a while, did not like it all and switched it off. I felt like the machine was trying to suffocate me when the pressure dropped. It is more comfortable for me to have continuous pressure. Different strikes for different folks.

ltd123 · Post by **ltd123** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:02 pm

I think this is an interesting thread.
I started this sleep apnea treatment adventure about 8 months ago. I tried hard to get used to c-pap but couldn't exhale comfortably against the airflow. (my pressure is 8-12) Then they tried c-flex and other adjustments to the machine as suggested on this forum and by the tech at the dr office. I began to think I would never be able to benefit from this treatment.. After a couple of months, it was suggested I try bi-pap. After two more adjustments to that machine it was like a miracle. I can inhale and exhale normally and at whatever speed/timing I want. Yay!
I can't imagine anyone not prefering this wonderful machine to the c-pap. I am still not able to achieve everything I want with this therapy (I am writing for advice in a minute) but the breathing part is natural and that huge hurdle is over.

My point here is not to argue that everyone should have a bipap but to encourage anyone who is having trouble adjusting to the airflow to try a bipap.
Laura

Sleepless in St. Louis · Post by **Sleepless in St. Louis** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:32 pm

My point here is not to argue that everyone should have a bipap but to encourage anyone who is having trouble adjusting to the airflow to try a bipap.

Exactly. That's sort of the point I was trying to make earlier in this thread. I am doing very well with my apap with cflex enabled but if I ever feel like I can't breath against it for whatever reason, I know the bipap is the next step.

Patrick A · Post by **Patrick A** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:11 pm

I have been on cpap since the day before my birthday in 2005, best birthday present I ever got in my life

I started with a Remstar plus set at 20cm. I used that machine for one year.
I bought myself a Remstar Pro-2 with cflex. I feel that the difference is night and day.
I know that my first cpap had the ramp feature. Which works well but I was still having to fight to exhale at 20 cm. If I went camping in the motorhome I had to set the altitude setting.

With my Remstar Pro-2 I have the ramp feature and since i started using this cpap I have not had to use it. I have the cflex feature set at 2, and the difference is night and day as i said before .

I no longer wake up having to spit up crap from my throat in the mornings any more.

I was thinking about getting an APAP and I asked my doctor about it and she told me that cpap was fine for me according to my sleep study.
I asked her about buying a Bi-Pap and she again said it was not needed,
so I guess I'm lucky.

My machine has the auto feature in it and I am really not that Familiar with the machines but I do know that the machine i have now is a lot better than the piece of JUNK that APRIA ripped me and my Insurance off for.

CPAP=exhaustion BIPAP=energy

CPAP=exhaustion BIPAP=energy

Bipap vs Autopap

bipap seems like a miracle to me

Machine