Res Med

Moon · Post by **Moon** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:37 am

Thank you for all your insight. I was unaware of a few items that were brought up... it all helps.
I dont work for Resmed or any other manufactor, so any input is great!!!
I am still working on all the fancey new terms out there on CPAP, APAP or whatever.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Moon wrote:Thank you for all your insight. I was unaware of a few items that were brought up... it all helps.
I dont work for Resmed or any other manufactor, so any input is great!!!
I am still working on all the fancey new terms out there on CPAP, APAP or whatever.

Glad to see you hung in here, Moon. You're right -- "input is great." Takes a lot of sifting and weighing ideas to figure out what you want to do in your own treatment. You're willing to ask questions...that's how we all got started. Sounds like you'll do well.

The terms were confusing to all of us at first. So many similar names of machines and masks!

Here are a couple of topics that might come in handy:

Types of machines:
viewtopic.php?p=56836
"Whats the differences in BIPAP, XPAP, APAP, CFLEX"

Common abbreviations and definitions:
viewtopic.php?t=14902
"Learning lexicon of cpap terms"

As Dreamstalker said:
"Not worry too much as others have stated before, any APAP is usually better than no APAP."

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:20 pm

Moon,
Please don't stop asking questions. Even though a question will sometimes "Hit a nerve" you know nothing about. Like maybe
Vaseline or the detergent you use to clean the equipment, etc., etc.,

Sleep well,
OGH

btw - I have heard some people don't even clean their hoses, while others
clean them every day..So, expand your xPAP knowledge, but don't take the answers as gospel..Unless, of course, they come from me...

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): clean

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:55 pm

Rested Gal,

If only,

Unfortunately here at cpaptalk Resmed and their equipment IMHO are considered fair targets for carping.

I do like your voice of reason and again as so often, very politely put, but I remain satisfied in my mind that Resmed's products, in balance, when discussed in this forum, are predominantly criticised for factors that don't always make sense to me.

As time has passed and I have learned a lot more about cpap and the equipment and as I have watched this forum, my opinion about the inherent Resmed bashing here has grown into a conviction. Polite words cannot change what I see in front of me.

This anti-Resmed sentiment was occuring long before the Resmed pricing issues. That event just allowed the criticising to become overt. I see little change (perhaps it has toned down a fraction in past weeks but not abated).

I respect your opinion on many matters but again, polite words cannot disguise the anti-Resmed sentiment that permeates cpaptalk.com

Putting that one issue aside. cpaptalk is a great mechanism with a lot of very knowledgeable people (such as yourself) who do a wonderful job when helping others here.

DSM

snoregirl · Post by **snoregirl** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:23 pm

You can't possibly be referring to me when you say the Resmed bashing was going on prior to the mandated internet price increases. I was still considering buying a Resmed as a back up at that time, so I could try both machines (cash off the internet since insurance only buys one machine....) and I was and still am a committed Swift user (until my supplies run out that I scarfed up a week before the increases). I expect that they will last a couple years kept sealed and in the dark.

I am not going to waste my time searching for anti Resmed threads (or lack of) to see if you are correct, but I don't remember much bashing before the price increases. But, am willing to admit that since I was not around prior to March of this year, if it occurred before then, I wouldn't know.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:50 pm

[quote="snoregirl"]You can't possibly be referring to me when you say the Resmed bashing was going on prior to the mandated internet price increases. I was still considering buying a Resmed as a back up at that time, so I could try both machines (cash off the internet since insurance only buys one machine....) and I was and still am a committed Swift user (until my supplies run out that I scarfed up a week before the increases). I expect that they will last a couple years kept sealed and in the dark.

I am not going to waste my time searching for anti Resmed threads (or lack of) to see if you are correct, but I don't remember much bashing before the price increases. But, am willing to admit that since I was not around prior to March of this year, if it occurred before then, I wouldn't know.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:40 pm

I once again, find myself standing shoulder to shoulder with Doug. I whiolehearetdly agree with his sentiments. Though I have absolutely no interest in inciting another flame war, I believe that the pro-Respironics/anti-Resmed bias patently evident to me here ought to be aired out for newcomers to view and factor into their evaluations of the opinions rendered here.

And, I am currently a well satisfied REMstar Auto user though I started with a ResMed S8 AutoSet Vantage which I believe worked poorly for me. But I cherish the S8 as a CPAP for travel purposes and I believe that ResMed S8 CPAPS are amongst the very best made, and that the ResMed S8 Elite is THE very best CPAP made. With regard to auto-titrating PAPs, I believe that this is a personal matter of which algorithm affords each individual the most effective treatment, and whichever one does is the VERY BEST one for that individual.

But here's what I know to be true: Respironics gear is NOT for everyone, just as ResMed's are not as well, and the monolithic adoration of Respironics machines along with the monolithic bashing of ResMed that occurs here is simply a lamentable distortion.

I also believe that the opinons rendered here ought to be confined to observations regarding clinical efficacy and NOT about ResMed's corporate pricing policies. If you disagree with them, divest your portfolio of any ResMed holdings. But DON"T DISCOURAGE newcomers from fairly evaluating the clinical efficacy, including human factors design, of the comepting brands of gear.

Okay Doug, here we go again. But, I'm here with ya bro!

Chuck

BTW, I don't have ANY inteerest in any xPAP related comemrcial concern. I receive no emoluments or incentives. I'm simply a state government slug.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, resmed, CPAP, auto, Travel

OSAGuy · Post by **OSAGuy** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:57 pm

Haven't visited this site for quite a while. While some of the infrormation is useful, there is a lot of crap spread around. Seems that we should be focusing on the merits of the product rather that attempting to debate a company's pricing policies - Those belong on the business sites. I have in the past used a resmed machine and thought it was a very good machine. Hoevever, after trying the Remstar Auto I thought it was a better machine so that's the one I use. Why don't you guys stick to the merits of the products rather than simply bashing Resmed. No, I don't work for Resmed, a DME, or any other medical provider. I am also not in the medical profession or anything related to it. Just an experienced APAP user that doesn;t believe in bashing a company over it's pricing policies on this kind of site. That being said, it looks like it will be quite some time before I vist this site again, as there are only a couple of people that seem to know what they are talking about.

snoregirl · Post by **snoregirl** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:58 pm

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree.

I believe that there are many things to consider when purchasing any device including medical equipment.

Of course how the machine treats you is of prime importance, however, there are other items that are also important.

Among these are price, availability, as well as availiability of add on items like cards and card readers, service, and support. I am sure others can come up with other items that are important to them.

I believe all these things have a place on a forum where people come to not only learn to use their machines effectively but also come to research before deciding what and where to purchase.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:32 pm

snoregirl wrote:I guess we will all have to agree to disagree.

I believe that there are many things to consider when purchasing any device including medical equipment.

Of course how the machine treats you is of prime importance, however, there are other items that are also important.

Among these are price, availability, as well as availiability of add on items like cards and card readers, service, and support. I am sure others can come up with other items that are important to them.

I believe all these things have a place on a forum where people come to not only learn to use their machines effectively but also come to research before deciding what and where to purchase.

I agree, and I have always thought you have provided excellent and balanced information and I see nothing here closely resembling bashing in your posts.

I think a company's corporate policy towards patients SHOULD weigh heavily into any decision.

I'd sure hate to be one of those patients that spent $1085+ for one of their machines then only to learn that I could no longer obtain the recording software for it due to a change in corporate policy or that the dealer I preferred to purchase it from can no longer service me to the extent prior to the sale with future products. Or that consumable products that need replacing will cost nearly double, again due to a corporate policy change.

Their machines are not bad if you are into cpap therapy.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:33 pm

Would you be willing to compromise clinical efficacy for price? if so, you're EXACTLY the kind of person that many pharmaceutical houses covet. I for one, would NOT.

All that I want to hear about is clinical efficacy. Then, I'll look at my budget and make my decisions. I sure as hell won't make my decisions based on a company's pricing policies, except for stock purchases. Just like I make the decision that I want the BEST heart drugs, regardless of whether its manufacturer may be embracing exploitative pricing policies for AIDS drugs in Africa. To cloud issues of clinical efficacy based upon consumer outrage about ResMed's decisions regarding its distribution channels is simply a disservice to those who come here relying upon the advice they receive here.

The add-ons like software and readers are a valuable adjunct, but at the end of the day, all that the software will tell you is that a poorly matched APAP is NOT working for you, or that a well matched one is. It won't make a poorly matched machine provide effective care. Therefore, its ESSENTIAL to find an auto-titrating machine (if one is going to go in that direction) that well matches one's clinical needs and provides the best possible response, and then perhaps use software to fine tune it. The manufactutrer of that machine is unimportant as long as you get one that matches your particular needs best.

The ONLY matter that bears reporting here is clinical efficacy. Nothing else.

Chuck

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:33 pm

snoregirl wrote:I guess we will all have to agree to disagree.

I believe that there are many things to consider when purchasing any device including medical equipment.

Of course how the machine treats you is of prime importance, however, there are other items that are also important.

Among these are price, availability, as well as availiability of add on items like cards and card readers, service, and support. I am sure others can come up with other items that are important to them.

I believe all these things have a place on a forum where people come to not only learn to use their machines effectively but also come to research before deciding what and where to purchase.

Snoregirl,

I doubt anyone would disagree with the point about raising issues such as ease of access to extras and other supplies. But that is an ideal & doesn't usually match the reality. The reality is the abuse / slanging / carping that gets included with most of those comments. That in turn leads me to constantly ask myself, how much of the material is 'politically' motivated versus just pointing out facts in relation to the points being made about xyz brand.

I repeat that if a few people repeat something enough it can appear to be fact even when it id far from it.

DSM

DSM

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:34 pm

snoregirl wrote: "previous text cut" .... and I was and still am a committed Swift user (until my supplies run out that I scarfed up a week before the increases). I expect that they will last a couple years kept sealed and in the dark.

I’m not one of them thar smart CPAP fellers … but it sure does sound like a bit’a hypocrisy there when you knowingly stock up on ResMed Swift products cuz of their price policy and then afterwards encourage others not to buy ResMed products cuz of their price policy.

If your going to talk the talk you should walk the walk and throw out all ResMed products out of your life. I might then be inclined to respect your ResMed whacking or what ever else you wish to call it … but what do I know? I just read this stuff like most everyone else and give my opinion every once in awhile.

snoregirl · Post by **snoregirl** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:01 pm

This is the last post from me on this subject.

Yes I stocked up on swift stuff.

I did that BEFORE the price action actually happened. I did not know for sure that Resmed would really truly do it, just rumors before it happened.

As I like the product very much, I decided to be safe, and, having nothing against the company at the time I bought to be safe. I fail to see the hypocrisy in buying a product that I like when there are rumors of something coming that I might dislike, but as yet hadn't materalized. Might never have happened at all. In fact I seem to remember a rumored date that came and went for the price action before it actually did happen.

Once they actually did it. I felt, for myself, it was then time to take my own stand and not buy in the future.

I will be very sad to give up my swift. It is a great product. I am sure I can find another by the time my stock runs out that I will like but it is always sad to have to change something that works well.

I am sure that Resmed's other products are good as well even though I chose a different machine for many reasons before any of this happened.

I am not as much encouraging others to boycott as I am providing factual information that anyone can find if they know where to look, to people who have just entered the world of CPAP and need ALL the information they can get. I know I needed lots of info when I got started. Every little tidbit about the machines and companies that I found on this site was helpful to me, I considered all of it. Not just the stuff directly related to treatment. And yes, I am allowed to post my opinion, as are all the posts on this forum.

Others are quite welcome and, I am sure, capable of making their own decisions about what brand to buy and whether or not the price action or the inability to get software etc is something that concerns them. Just as they are welcome to decide if the leaky M series humidifier concerns them. I love my classic Remstar, but I certainly won't buy the M series at this point it if may leave little puddles on my floor (my decision). Others may decide that the puddle is a small price to pay for the latest and greatest. That is their decision to make. But they can't consider it if they don't know about it.

Rumors are the leaky M humidifier is being fixed. Who knows if that is true or it will keep leaking and ruining nightstands or floors. Time will tell. Until that time when I stop hearing about M machines leaking, that information is something an individual must weigh as they make their purchase and I feel that people are entitled to any and all information pro and con. Is the leaky humidifier information exactly related to the quality of treatment as someone suggested we limit our posts to? I doubt that it affects the quality of treatment, but it sure affects the quality of life by watching for water in a tray or bucket under the machine and the potential for the machine to become damaged if the water ends up inside the machine where it shouldn't be.

I doubt any/many of us know about every single machine out there. So, by each of us posting what we do know, hopefully people looking for information will get as much information as possible about all the choices. Some of us have one brand or another and that is usually what we tend to post about. May make us look like we favor that brand. Well, we probably do to some degree since we actually chose it to purchase. And even if we have nothing against other brands (for example devilbliss, F and P are two I can think of that I know nothing about) if we don't have experience with them we tend to not post. At least that is the case with me. So I don't know so much that some of us are Respironics lovers/pushers but more likely satisfied respironics users who tend to post to threads where we have experience.

One last comment which actually may be off topic, but I have wanted to say it for a while. And, what the heck, I am on a roll and am making my last post to this thread.

While I love the idea of trying all the machines and then choosing one, and suggesting this to new CPAPers is great so that those who can will do it, realistically for many of us it is virtually impossible. I do not see the DME I dealt with as being open to this idea. Maybe there are some places around where it is possible and even encouraged, and if so that is wonderful and the patient is really lucky. However, I think the majority of us have to try to gather as much information as possible and make the most intelligent decision we can on a machine without the luxury of even trying more than one.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:11 pm

Would you buy a dress without trying it on???

SETTLE FOR NOTHING LESS WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR HEALTH!!!

Cheers!

Chuck

Res Med

D'accord

Price

Choices

Mask