Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
bjhughes
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Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:24 pm

Hello all,

My story is long but I'll try to keep it concise. Up until mid-April 2019 I was doing fine, a little overweight with diabetes and mild asthma but having no health issues otherwise. I never had any of the commonly described sleep apnea symptoms. I could describe the evolution of my symptoms but they are long and complicated over a 6 month period, 6 visits to the ER, many dozens of tests with multiple doctors with negative results. The symptoms included major muscle twitching, shakiness, shortness of breath as if I had been running extremely hard, high heart rate and high blood pressure. I would have good days and bad days, on the good days I couldn't tell anything was wrong, on the bad days I thought I didn't have much time left. Heart palpitations when I tried to sleep made me turn to the reclining couch where after months I started to feel better. Although I never got back to 100% again.

Then one doctor asked to do an in lab split night sleep study, an at home nocturnal oximetry test showed I never went below 89% saturation but I did have bradycardia with a low HR of 51 and a low respiration rate. The sleep study found extreme apnea during REM sleep, 67 AHI, 13 during no-REM sleep. While it took a number of weeks I finally got my APAP machine with a full face mask.

I've had no issues adjusting to wearing something on my face all night. I'm also wearing a recording SpO2 monitor and this is where I've started noticing an issue. I'm hopeful that if I post some of my machine data some of the more experienced individuals can help illuminate any issues. I won't be seeing a sleep specialist doctor until 06 November, where I live most doctors have long waits for new patients.

I have found that I'm getting worse sleep and lower O2 saturation since using the APAP machine. One night I found the machine was hitting 18 and the leaking woke me up, I didn't wear it the rest of the night. Another night I got the same thing and I found taking the mask off, turning off the machine and back on I was able to sleep the rest of the night. After reviewing my oximeter results and the APAP machine information I see a pattern in that from the moment I fall asleep to about 3 hours later my O2 saturation will swing up and down, some nights between 80% to 95 %. The APAP machine seems to be pumping up the pressure in stages during this period. After midnight I seem to sleep better with more normal O2 saturation.

Last night wasn't the worst night but it wasn't great either, AHI was 6.3, clear airway was 12, OSA was 9 and hyponeas was 26. I've been using the machine about 3 weeks, all but a few nights are 8 hours. AHI has generally been below 5. Most days I feel exhausted, I tire easily, breathing hard and sometimes it feels like my heart is clenching, like anxiety and with no pain. I've had a number of heart tests that indicate my heart is in excellent health, although the lack of oxygen during sleep can't be doing my heart muscles any good. The only thing that worries me is that I could have silent coronary artery disease, the cardiologist did say it is possible to have asymptomatic CAD and he'd be willing to do an angiogram. Justifying that with my insurance is the tricky part. I'd like to consider the sleep apnea before going down that road though.

I have asked my primary doctor to add an oxygen concentrator to my APAP machine, since my lowest SpO2 on the machine is about 5% lower than before I started using the machine; he has ordered it but I'm not sure how long before I'll get it. I'm at work but when I get home I'll post some images from OSCAR along with images from my oximeter before and after using the APAP machine.

Edit: Added OSCAR images and oximeter data, which I've linked to since the image comes out very large.

Here's from a decent night on 23 Sep with an AHI of 2.5:
Image

23 Sep 2019 oximeter image

And here's from last night, which was not my worst night:
Image

29 Sep 2019 oximeter image

One thing that came to mind was that my nights and oximeter data was better early on, before I changed a few things. I turned off ramp, turned flex to 3 and changed from a medium AirFit F20 to a large AirTouch F20. I felt like I wasn't getting enough air with the ramp at 4.0, thought the flex at 3 rather than 2 would make it easier to exhale. The AirFit F20 seemed too tight and didn't seal very well.

The only other thing I haven't mentioned is that I'm taking clonazepam for anxiety since the was the default diagnosis before the sleep study. Taking it or not doesn't seem to correspond with my good or bad nights but as a tranquilizer I assume it's slowing my breathing.
Last edited by bjhughes on Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kteague
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by kteague » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:01 pm

I'm sure some of the data gurus will be along soon and it would be helpful for them to see your machine data. There are instructions for that in the posts for newbies. Until then, just speaking in general, prevention is better resolution. In other words, having your starting pressure at a level it doesn't have to go so far to reach a therapeutic presssure can help prevent trouble. These machines are designed to very methodically increase pressures over time, and if it has a long way to go, it may not be able to get there in time to prevent events. You'll want to consider if your settings might be asking your machine to achieve an impossible task. If so, raising the lower pressure is often suggested. Sometimes that can make the machine going to higher pressures unnecessary and solve the other issues like leaks at higher pressures. If none of this applies to your situation, I apologize. Good luck with things.

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cyberdreamer
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by cyberdreamer » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 pm

Welcome to the forum! It's complicated to give you suggestions without seeing any data from the machine. I'm sure people will have many valuable insights when you post the pictures.

In my opinion, the hardest part is sleeping the whole night with the machine and you got over that hurdle! :D
Machine: Airsense 10 Autoset (humidity 7, slimline hose) (5 years)
Mask: Resmed F30 (medium) (1 year)
Previous masks: Swift FX Nano (5 years); Dreamwear Nasal (few days); Swift FX pillow (few days)
Sleep study in 2016 with AHI 12 and some oxy desats

bjhughes
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Location: Cheyenne, WY

Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:14 pm

cyberdreamer wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 pm
Welcome to the forum! It's complicated to give you suggestions without seeing any data from the machine. I'm sure people will have many valuable insights when you post the pictures.

In my opinion, the hardest part is sleeping the whole night with the machine and you got over that hurdle! :D
Hi! I've edited my post to include the data from the machine. There are also links to my oximeter images for the same night.

Thanks

centrum
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by centrum » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:58 pm

Adjust minimum pressure to 10 to begin and turn off the flex. I can see my first moment with CPAP in your chart. Maybe you'll need even higher pressure, but one step at a time is a better way.

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TropicalDiver
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by TropicalDiver » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:31 pm

centrum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:58 pm
Adjust minimum pressure to 10 to begin and turn off the flex. I can see my first moment with CPAP in your chart. Maybe you'll need even higher pressure, but one step at a time is a better way.
My general advice: slower changes, and change one thing at a time.
Machine: Aircurve 10 Vauto (Prior S9 VPAP)
Mask: Quattro Air FFM and AirTouch F20 FFM

bjhughes
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Location: Cheyenne, WY

Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:07 am

centrum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:58 pm
Adjust minimum pressure to 10 to begin and turn off the flex. I can see my first moment with CPAP in your chart. Maybe you'll need even higher pressure, but one step at a time is a better way.
I can't currently change the pressure myself but I've sent a message to the sleep specialist/pulmonologist with an image of the oximeter data and an explanation. I don't think he has the machine data yet so I'll have to ask the DME supplier to get it and send it to him.

Thanks

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:11 am

Symptoms of apnea can include T2 diabetes.
Apnea is a b*tch.

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bjhughes
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:18 am

TropicalDiver wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:31 pm
centrum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:58 pm
Adjust minimum pressure to 10 to begin and turn off the flex. I can see my first moment with CPAP in your chart. Maybe you'll need even higher pressure, but one step at a time is a better way.
My general advice: slower changes, and change one thing at a time.
Thanks, I will try one thing at a time going forward. I set everything back to when I got the machine. Didn't have a great night, had an AHI of 4.8 and the oximeter shows a few drops down to 81% and 25 min of below 90%. The medium AirFit F20 was too tight and caused bridge pain; I'll try going back to the large AirTouch F20. I can't turn off the Flex but I can turn it down to 1, it's another one of those things that the provider locked.

bjhughes
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Location: Cheyenne, WY

Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:27 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:11 am
Symptoms of apnea can include T2 diabetes.
Apnea is a b*tch.
I got my T2 diabetes about 12 years ago, I managed it pretty well when I had good insurance, then I changed jobs with worse insurance, my endocrinologist quit working and I had trouble finding a new doctor. I've been able to keep it under control recently after eventually going to Victoza. These health problems started a little after the time my doctor wanted me to try Actos, which is implicated in CHF so I thought it was a heart problem, so did the doctors as they did many heart tests and chemical signature tests. Everything they tested, until the sleep study came back negative, indicating I was in pretty good health if it wasn't for my symptoms.

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Pugsy
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by Pugsy » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:31 am

You do have the ability to unlock anything that the provider has locked.
Flex is normally considered a comfort setting and entirely within acceptable parameters for the patient to have access to for either changing or turning off.
The other stuff you can change also if you are comfortable doing so.
See this page...request the provider manual for your machine via email as it will explain how to unlock anything you want to unlock...the secret hand shake to get into the clinical setup menu area where the provider probably doesn't think you are smart enough to go.

https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... tup-manual

Should you desire to change more than just the Flex setting....I also suggest to people to make small changes in anything and one change at a time. No big changes and no multiple changes....remember science 101 experiments. Keep your variables to a minimum so you can best judge your results and know who caused what effect.

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centrum
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by centrum » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:30 am

bjhughes wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:07 am
centrum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:58 pm
Adjust minimum pressure to 10 to begin and turn off the flex. I can see my first moment with CPAP in your chart. Maybe you'll need even higher pressure, but one step at a time is a better way.
I can't currently change the pressure myself but I've sent a message to the sleep specialist/pulmonologist with an image of the oximeter data and an explanation. I don't think he has the machine data yet so I'll have to ask the DME supplier to get it and send it to him.

Thanks
Video how to change settings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84LkXFETkt8

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bjhughes
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Location: Cheyenne, WY

Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:31 am
You do have the ability to unlock anything that the provider has locked.
Flex is normally considered a comfort setting and entirely within acceptable parameters for the patient to have access to for either changing or turning off.
The other stuff you can change also if you are comfortable doing so.
See this page...request the provider manual for your machine via email as it will explain how to unlock anything you want to unlock...the secret hand shake to get into the clinical setup menu area where the provider probably doesn't think you are smart enough to go.

https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... tup-manual

Should you desire to change more than just the Flex setting....I also suggest to people to make small changes in anything and one change at a time. No big changes and no multiple changes....remember science 101 experiments. Keep your variables to a minimum so you can best judge your results and know who caused what effect.
Thanks to you and centrum for the information, pretty useful. I'm an engineer and already have my hands on the service manual for my model, with detailed information on all of the therapy and patient settings. It isn't that I can't change the settings, I'd rather just wait a bit to see what the doctor says about my data and what his recommendations are. If he decides not to interact with me prior to my new patient visit I'll probably go and make adjustments. I tend to be a bit impatient so I doubt I'll wait long.

I think I will want to turn the Flex down to 1 or turn it off though. When I'm trying to fall asleep it seems to interfere with my breathing rhythm, kind of like Bi-Pap did during the sleep study. Sometimes it feels like there's not enough air and other times it feels like it's dictating my breathing pattern. Plus I find the fan sound annoying, changing speed as I breath in or out.

During the sleep study they started at 5 and went up to 7 but my sleep efficiency was much lower than without the CPAP. It's very likely that I need a slightly higher minimum pressure.

centrum
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by centrum » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:36 pm

bjhughes, you has an excellent description for Flex settings. Another problem with the flex is you already has a low minimum pressure and you add 2 cm drop pressure with the flex on epap and your airway can collapse when exhale. As other said... Few change at a time is better. So, as flex is only a comfort setting, you could begin to turn it off without changing pressure.

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bjhughes
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Re: Newbie: Newly Diagnosed Sleep Apnea

Post by bjhughes » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:42 am

centrum wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:36 pm
bjhughes, you has an excellent description for Flex settings. Another problem with the flex is you already has a low minimum pressure and you add 2 cm drop pressure with the flex on epap and your airway can collapse when exhale. As other said... Few change at a time is better. So, as flex is only a comfort setting, you could begin to turn it off without changing pressure.
I turned the flex down to 1 and slept on the reclining couch. The machine recorded no OSA and an AHI of 4.8, still had 23 hypopnea. I also didn't sleep that well, woke up multiple times and probably got less than 3 hours. Before I got the machine I was sleeping on the couch for about 4 months and I was doing better than I am now.

Still worried about my heart and some chest pain or moments of tightness. I hope the angiogram can be scheduled quickly, that will take a load off my concerns about my heart. I’m still thinking that what I’m feeling in my chest is from low oxygen and poor sleep.