Found my missing link - Testosterone + Apnea

[marcusm]

So something I really wanted to share and get opinions on and maybe will help others.
Been on CPAP since roughly Dec 18, never slept well, never felt rested. Felt just as bad as pre-cpap. There's nothing wrong with my set up, leaks etc and APIs are tiny on paper like 0.19, 0.45 etc even some straight 0.00
So on paper I should feel better.....nope...

I've read posts about a sleep debt and about your body getting used to it but I think I've found my switch.

Testosterone, i.e lack of it or lack of free T...

My wife and I are trying for a baby, and my sperm count I know is low so I started looking for natural ways to boost it, found some Indian herbs which I've taken for a couple of months then came across D-Aspartic acid a couple of weeks ago, that has had some good results with people boosting sperm count.

Now I'm sure some of you experts know that there's a vicious circle of Testosterone and Apnea with Apnea making testosterone low and then because it's low it also affects sleep.

Well.....

Took this and first night was out solidly and slept significantly better. Woke up and for the first time in months I was OMG....I actually didnt' wake up 2-3 times in the middle of the night...solid 6 hours which is amazing for me. Since then done 2 weeks and wasn't as dramatic as that first night, but I'm actually sleeping solidly and going back to sleep quicker if I do wake up.

Now that's all personal opinion right...well....

I looked at the data....and what is surprising is my AHI is worse..but if you think about it it makes sense. I am sleeping deeper..Before I was light sleeping and feeling like crap so was never deep enough asleep to generate Apnea/Hyopnea etc....

And the numbers bear it out. I did an average of my AHI in May, July to compare to the 14 days I took D-Aspartic acid:

May - Average of 0.34 AHI
July - Average of 0.39 AHI
13 Days of August before I started taking this 0.25

Now the 13 days after I started taking it it jumped to 0.61 with some numbers I've never seen before like 1.40 and 1.77 AHI....not seen those in 6 months.

So I'm sharing to hopefully help someone else out, I'm honestly amazed the difference it has made and instantly. I now need to figure out how to get a doc to actually test my testosterone and get a decent diagnosis as it's not easy to accurately test it.

Thanks!

[jimbud]

So something I really wanted to share and get opinions on and maybe will help others.
Been on CPAP since roughly Dec 18, never slept well, never felt rested. Felt just as bad as pre-cpap. There's nothing wrong with my set up, leaks etc and APIs are tiny on paper like 0.19, 0.45 etc even some straight 0.00
So on paper I should feel better.....nope...

I've read posts about a sleep debt and about your body getting used to it but I think I've found my switch.

Testosterone, i.e lack of it or lack of free T...

My wife and I are trying for a baby, and my sperm count I know is low so I started looking for natural ways to boost it, found some Indian herbs which I've taken for a couple of months then came across D-Aspartic acid a couple of weeks ago, that has had some good results with people boosting sperm count.

Now I'm sure some of you experts know that there's a vicious circle of Testosterone and Apnea with Apnea making testosterone low and then because it's low it also affects sleep.

Well.....

Took this and first night was out solidly and slept significantly better. Woke up and for the first time in months I was OMG....I actually didnt' wake up 2-3 times in the middle of the night...solid 6 hours which is amazing for me. Since then done 2 weeks and wasn't as dramatic as that first night, but I'm actually sleeping solidly and going back to sleep quicker if I do wake up.

Now that's all personal opinion right...well....

I looked at the data....and what is surprising is my AHI is worse..but if you think about it it makes sense. I am sleeping deeper..Before I was light sleeping and feeling like crap so was never deep enough asleep to generate Apnea/Hyopnea etc....

And the numbers bear it out. I did an average of my AHI in May, July to compare to the 14 days I took D-Aspartic acid:

May - Average of 0.34 AHI
July - Average of 0.39 AHI
13 Days of August before I started taking this 0.25

Now the 13 days after I started taking it it jumped to 0.61 with some numbers I've never seen before like 1.40 and 1.77 AHI....not seen those in 6 months.

So I'm sharing to hopefully help someone else out, I'm honestly amazed the difference it has made and instantly. I now need to figure out how to get a doc to actually test my testosterone and get a decent diagnosis as it's not easy to accurately test it.

Thanks!

I can mask up watch TV and get events. Awake.

So you are saying the higher the AHI the better? (for the sperm count of course)
Turns out it may be.
I may be missing something. (very possible for me lately)
Turns out I was.



JPB

This sleep Apnea thing just keeps getting more complicated for me every day.
Turns out to still be the case.

[Pugsy]

Actually sleeping more soundly equaling a slight higher AHI bears fruit.
Especially so if a person happens to have REM worse OSA. If someone's OSA is worse in REM but you don't ever get much REM because of arousals from whatever then you don't get a chance to see your OSA at its worst.

The slightly higher AHI could indeed be a reflection of better sleep quality in some cases.
It could also just be normal variances but since you also are reporting that you feel better in general and you feel you are indeed sleeping better....might be more than just normal variance.

Regardless...the increase is very slight and certainly not worth worrying about since you report actually feeling and sleeping better.
No need to do anything or worry about it. Accept your good luck and be happy.
If you are indeed getting more REM and having a few more apneas because of it...let your machine just deal with it and shrug your shoulders and get back to trying to make that baby.

[jimbud]

Once again. Very happy to learn something new.

Will edit first post to reflect that.

I still live.
I still learn.
And so it goes.

JPB

In my case:

When my AHI is high it reflects poor sleep. (usually)
When my AHI is low it reflects good sleep. (usually)

Sometimes my AHI is high, but when looked at closely and take out the SWJ it is actually low. Because of all the arousals involved with the SWJ my sleep can be poor. I feel like crap.

Sometimes my AHI can be low, but because I wake and can not get back to sleep. I feel like crap.

Sometimes when I can sleep hardly at all. My AHI is almost nonexistent. I feel like crap.

Mostly though my AHI is pretty good and my sleep is pretty good. I feel pretty good.

This APNEA thing is complicated.

There now I feel better. (He said after having vented)

JPB

Since I have three grown children. I no longer worry about my sperm count. Thank goodness.

[marcusm]

Thanks for the replies, hope it is helpful to some people. It could of course be a conincidence and getting over my sleep debt occurred at the same time but changing sleep on the same day, I doubt it! Hope you all get some rest and the tip helps someone!

[slowriter]

What dosage, how many times/day?

[ChicagoGranny]

D-Aspartic acid a couple of weeks ago, that has had some good results with people boosting sperm count.

A 2017 mega analysis showed:

With 396 retrieved records, 23 animal studies and 4 human studies were included.

Our results showed that exogenous D-Asp enhances testosterone levels in male animal’s studies, whereas studies in human yielded inconsistent results. The evidence for this association in man is still sparse, mostly because of limited number and poor quality studies.

Conclusion:
There is an urgent need for more and well-designed human clinical trials with larger sample sizes and longer duration to investigate putative effects of D-Asp on testosterone concentrations.

Study abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5340133/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started looking for natural ways to boost it, found some Indian herbs which I've taken for a couple of months then came across D-Aspartic acid

It is amusing when someone is intent on natural products and then finds a downstream petroleum-based chemical (2-Aminobutanedioic acid) which seems to work. Maybe it's ancient Chinese or Indian medicine? You bottle of capsules may say Made in USA, however almost all 2-Aminobutanedioic acid is produced in chemical plants in China and India. Some brands buy the acid from Asia and package it in capsule or pill form in the USA, thus the labeling.

I hope you continue to get good results without any desired side effects. It will be interesting to see what the sperm count results are. Good luck with growing your family. (Although Bernie and AOC won't be happy.)

[Ograx]

DAA has been floating around bodybuilding circles for a long time.

I've personally used it and never really noticed a difference when taking it alone.

It is supposedly alot more beneficial to those who don't weight train compared to those who do.

I've taken a few things to try and boost test which Ill mention down below. Whether or not they had any effect on test I have no proof from testing but I did notice libido increase from supplements which contained these ingredients as well as increased nighttime erections.

If you are seriously worried about low test go to a doctor and get tested but look hard at the pros and cons of TRT before going that route if it is offered.


ZMA (Zinc,Magnesium,B6)

Tribulus Terrestis

Fenugreek