deebatt wrote:Hi fellas. Nice to meet some fellow bird lovers and hoseheads too!! This is my first official posting! Im only 2 weeks along rabid1 so i cant offer much. so far my transition has been pretty uneventful. Yardbird has offered me some GREAT tips!Rabid1 wrote:Dude, they're too noisey for EVERYBODYyardbird wrote:Oh... and bless you for keeping conures. I couldn't do it. They were too noisey for me.
I agree with you too rabid1..this forum by far is the most welcoming and so full of knowledge!!
Goodluck to another fellow newbie!
Beginning My Journey: Friends wanted
Wake me up when this is over...
-
rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Good advice from so many in this thread! Good reading.
Regarding differences of opinion about optimum range for setting an autopap... I think the best range for each individual depends on many things. Here are just two:
1. Whether it was a relatively "usual" night of sleep. In your case, since you customarily have two glasses of wine in the evening, I think it would have been better to do that as usual on the study night too.
2. Whether it was a "good" titration. And who knows? Unless you could have more titrations at more sleep labs, or with different techs doing the titration...way too expensive! An autopap is the next best thing to see, over time and in your own sleeping environment, what pressure range really suits you.
Like snoregirl, you might be treated well most of the night with a pressure considerably lower than the "worst case scenario" single pressure arrived at in the sleep lab titration.
Or, as curt pointed out some (true for me) sleep more smoothly and get better treatment by having the lower pressure set very close to or on the prescribed pressure, if that pressure is easy to take. In that case, we're using our autopaps for the reassurance of having more pressure available when/if needed.
I already know, from experimenting with different single pressures and deliberately relaxing my throat as much as possible while still awake my throat absolutely slams shut at any pressure below 8. So, I elect to set my autopap for a range of 8 - 16 or 9 - 16. Works well for me, occasionally going up to 12 or 13, and rarely ever hitting higher. Those higher pressures are there, however, when needed -- even if only rarely and briefly.
With an autopap and the software, I think any person of average intelligence with plain OSA can tweak until they find the optimum range for himself/herself. There are things that can throw a monkey wrench into it -- GERD, for example. Or serious allergies or congestion on some nights.
I agree with Sleepless in St. Louis's comment:
Say to the doc "hey humor me on this. I want to at least give the apap a try. If it does not seem to work out for me, I'll just switch it over to the fixed mode." You can run the apap as a straight cpap. Some have found they do not do will on apap. I've tried both and the apap works better for me. I personally would not challenge him on his knowledge of xpap. He'll tune you out as soon as you do.
In addition to the link tooly125 provided, here's an rather interesting old topic:
viewtopic.php?t=1461
Feb 19, 2005 subject: "Sleep Doctor" doesn't like autopaps
yardbird, (gotta love that nickname! ) I used to breed a few pairs of Lady Gouldian finches. Also had a sweet little Senegal parrot. Have only a Peking Robin now, in a nice huge cage.
Yep.Rabid1 wrote:Sounds like consistency is the issue here. Don't drink ever, drink the same amount everyday, or...get an APAP.
Regarding differences of opinion about optimum range for setting an autopap... I think the best range for each individual depends on many things. Here are just two:
1. Whether it was a relatively "usual" night of sleep. In your case, since you customarily have two glasses of wine in the evening, I think it would have been better to do that as usual on the study night too.
2. Whether it was a "good" titration. And who knows? Unless you could have more titrations at more sleep labs, or with different techs doing the titration...way too expensive! An autopap is the next best thing to see, over time and in your own sleeping environment, what pressure range really suits you.
Like snoregirl, you might be treated well most of the night with a pressure considerably lower than the "worst case scenario" single pressure arrived at in the sleep lab titration.
Or, as curt pointed out some (true for me) sleep more smoothly and get better treatment by having the lower pressure set very close to or on the prescribed pressure, if that pressure is easy to take. In that case, we're using our autopaps for the reassurance of having more pressure available when/if needed.
I already know, from experimenting with different single pressures and deliberately relaxing my throat as much as possible while still awake my throat absolutely slams shut at any pressure below 8. So, I elect to set my autopap for a range of 8 - 16 or 9 - 16. Works well for me, occasionally going up to 12 or 13, and rarely ever hitting higher. Those higher pressures are there, however, when needed -- even if only rarely and briefly.
With an autopap and the software, I think any person of average intelligence with plain OSA can tweak until they find the optimum range for himself/herself. There are things that can throw a monkey wrench into it -- GERD, for example. Or serious allergies or congestion on some nights.
I agree with Sleepless in St. Louis's comment:
Say to the doc "hey humor me on this. I want to at least give the apap a try. If it does not seem to work out for me, I'll just switch it over to the fixed mode." You can run the apap as a straight cpap. Some have found they do not do will on apap. I've tried both and the apap works better for me. I personally would not challenge him on his knowledge of xpap. He'll tune you out as soon as you do.
In addition to the link tooly125 provided, here's an rather interesting old topic:
viewtopic.php?t=1461
Feb 19, 2005 subject: "Sleep Doctor" doesn't like autopaps
yardbird, (gotta love that nickname! ) I used to breed a few pairs of Lady Gouldian finches. Also had a sweet little Senegal parrot. Have only a Peking Robin now, in a nice huge cage.
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
OMG, I almost missed that he runs a computer consulting firm too. Birds and Nerds. I LOVE it! (I work as institutional consultant for purchasing for the IT department at the university here... heheh)
AND I run linux here at home, AND I have Encore Pro working in a VM using VMWare Workstation with an XP guest OS on this linux host.
Birds.... man I miss 'em. But when my beloved Babe died of liver disease, I was in such grief (sounds silly maybe to folks that haven't been down this road). I fed him by hand when he was not even feathered yet. He was mine and I was his. He rode in the car with me, went for walks..... amazing friend. He used to sing Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers, Amazing Grace.... and my kids taught him the entire Oscar Mayer Weiner song in less than a day. I also belonged to an organization that rescued exotic birds. I used to take birds to events to raise awareness. I even belonged to a task force from teh museum here that people would call for wild bird issues...
One winter a lot of people in one area found Horned Greebs in their yard during a storm. A flock was apparently flying over when they iced up (literally) and became to heavy to fly. People would take them outside after they had brought them in to warm up... and do the toss. You know.... light toss to get them flying. And the greebs would go *thunk* back onto the ground. They called me with all of these "birds must be hurt and can't fly" so I drove around and picked 'em all up. I stopped at a bait shop and bought minnows. One by one I put them in the tub with a few minnows so they could eat. When the storm stopped I took them all out behind the museum of natural history here and let them go into a patch of open water. See.... greebs can't take off from land. And they won't fly from being tossed. They can only get airborn from open water. People must have thought me a bit crazy as I took box after cardboard box out of my van and took the birds out behind the museum and released them. They dove and swam and caught food...and then moved on.
I've had Hyacinth macaws, Major Mitchell cockatoos, Moluccan cocckatoos, Scarlets, Green Wings, Lories, ring necks, you name it... even had an owl for a while but he got better, apparently found a mate and left.
And..... I apologize for the thread hijack.
Stay with this, rabid1. Lotta good people here cheering you on.
AND I run linux here at home, AND I have Encore Pro working in a VM using VMWare Workstation with an XP guest OS on this linux host.
Birds.... man I miss 'em. But when my beloved Babe died of liver disease, I was in such grief (sounds silly maybe to folks that haven't been down this road). I fed him by hand when he was not even feathered yet. He was mine and I was his. He rode in the car with me, went for walks..... amazing friend. He used to sing Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers, Amazing Grace.... and my kids taught him the entire Oscar Mayer Weiner song in less than a day. I also belonged to an organization that rescued exotic birds. I used to take birds to events to raise awareness. I even belonged to a task force from teh museum here that people would call for wild bird issues...
One winter a lot of people in one area found Horned Greebs in their yard during a storm. A flock was apparently flying over when they iced up (literally) and became to heavy to fly. People would take them outside after they had brought them in to warm up... and do the toss. You know.... light toss to get them flying. And the greebs would go *thunk* back onto the ground. They called me with all of these "birds must be hurt and can't fly" so I drove around and picked 'em all up. I stopped at a bait shop and bought minnows. One by one I put them in the tub with a few minnows so they could eat. When the storm stopped I took them all out behind the museum of natural history here and let them go into a patch of open water. See.... greebs can't take off from land. And they won't fly from being tossed. They can only get airborn from open water. People must have thought me a bit crazy as I took box after cardboard box out of my van and took the birds out behind the museum and released them. They dove and swam and caught food...and then moved on.
I've had Hyacinth macaws, Major Mitchell cockatoos, Moluccan cocckatoos, Scarlets, Green Wings, Lories, ring necks, you name it... even had an owl for a while but he got better, apparently found a mate and left.
And..... I apologize for the thread hijack.
Stay with this, rabid1. Lotta good people here cheering you on.
_________________
| Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
| Additional Comments: original pressure 8cm - auto 8-12 |
birds and nerds
Wow- a lesson on exotic birds and PAP for the price of one. What a Forum!!
My advice to the original poster who has a doc with a closed mind is to continue reading and then compose a letter to take to the doc on your next visit.
Make it very pithy and out line the many advantages of apap over cpap.
Solicit the help of the brains her to polish up the letter.
Have someone e-mail you a pdf of some of the reposts generated by the software and print out for the doc.
Give him a clear explanation of his objection to APAP not being shared by those here who are for more knowledgeable than his ordinary patients.
Let him know that SOME patients do KNOW a lot about their treatment and can participate intelligently with the proper data.
Digest this, work on it, and proceed.
You are in an excellent position to help educating docs such as yours whose main motivation is keeping patients in the dark ages and their only option with cpap is to come back for another titration.
You can do thie EVERY night with an APAP.
Your health, your call.
My advice to the original poster who has a doc with a closed mind is to continue reading and then compose a letter to take to the doc on your next visit.
Make it very pithy and out line the many advantages of apap over cpap.
Solicit the help of the brains her to polish up the letter.
Have someone e-mail you a pdf of some of the reposts generated by the software and print out for the doc.
Give him a clear explanation of his objection to APAP not being shared by those here who are for more knowledgeable than his ordinary patients.
Let him know that SOME patients do KNOW a lot about their treatment and can participate intelligently with the proper data.
Digest this, work on it, and proceed.
You are in an excellent position to help educating docs such as yours whose main motivation is keeping patients in the dark ages and their only option with cpap is to come back for another titration.
You can do thie EVERY night with an APAP.
Your health, your call.
Welcome Rabid1,
Well you are right, this is the best resource out there for Xpap users, both new and experienced.
Stick to your guns and get the machine you want. You are the one that has to live with it. I had a struggle upgrading my straight cpap to an auto (after 7 months on the cpap) but I persevered and now have the machine that I should have gotten in the first place. I didn't find this forum until months after my therapy started so I wasn't an informed patient then. You, however, have good knowledge going in so should be able direct the path you must take.
And yardbird, great post (first one) Coach! If that wasn't the best half time pep talk I don't know what else would do. Great to hear about the birds too. I almost got a couple Eclectus a while ago but got a Harlequin Macaw instead. Her name is "Big Guy". Yes I said her. Unlike Eclectus that are sexually dimorphic, macaws require a blood test to determine gender. Well we never got a blood test but one day we were surprised to find at the bottom of his (err her) cage a little present... an Egg! We could never come up with a new name. It didn't seem right calling her by a different name so we just left it at "Big Guy". We have had "Big Guy" now for about 14 years and she is healthy and happy. She gives us these amazing blue and yellow tail feathers that I have distributed to all the kids in our neighborhood. They love em. She has given us 3 more eggs since the first one, all have been at the bottom of the cage, cracked. She sure does love her bell, talks alot (G rated) and answers the phone when it rings with a quick little "hello".
Here is a picture of "Big Guy" http://images20.fotki.com/v369/photos/9 ... 063-vi.jpg
OK Back to topic....
Rabid1 some people have no problems with their DMEs or doctors and some people have a hard time. I found out that my sleep study cost my insurance company $3000. The location that did mine does 4 studies per night, 6 days per week. That's $72000 per week! I'm sure the doctor's get an nice slice of that pie so of course they wouldn't want you to be able to do your own sleep study in the comfort of your own home AND be able to make your own adjustments. Then the DME's...well you know that story.
Good Luck and don't be afraid to go toe to toe, Its your therapy, not theirs.
DB
P.S. Vosmaeri or Solomon?
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, DME, auto
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, DME, auto
Well you are right, this is the best resource out there for Xpap users, both new and experienced.
Stick to your guns and get the machine you want. You are the one that has to live with it. I had a struggle upgrading my straight cpap to an auto (after 7 months on the cpap) but I persevered and now have the machine that I should have gotten in the first place. I didn't find this forum until months after my therapy started so I wasn't an informed patient then. You, however, have good knowledge going in so should be able direct the path you must take.
And yardbird, great post (first one) Coach! If that wasn't the best half time pep talk I don't know what else would do. Great to hear about the birds too. I almost got a couple Eclectus a while ago but got a Harlequin Macaw instead. Her name is "Big Guy". Yes I said her. Unlike Eclectus that are sexually dimorphic, macaws require a blood test to determine gender. Well we never got a blood test but one day we were surprised to find at the bottom of his (err her) cage a little present... an Egg! We could never come up with a new name. It didn't seem right calling her by a different name so we just left it at "Big Guy". We have had "Big Guy" now for about 14 years and she is healthy and happy. She gives us these amazing blue and yellow tail feathers that I have distributed to all the kids in our neighborhood. They love em. She has given us 3 more eggs since the first one, all have been at the bottom of the cage, cracked. She sure does love her bell, talks alot (G rated) and answers the phone when it rings with a quick little "hello".
Here is a picture of "Big Guy" http://images20.fotki.com/v369/photos/9 ... 063-vi.jpg
OK Back to topic....
Rabid1 some people have no problems with their DMEs or doctors and some people have a hard time. I found out that my sleep study cost my insurance company $3000. The location that did mine does 4 studies per night, 6 days per week. That's $72000 per week! I'm sure the doctor's get an nice slice of that pie so of course they wouldn't want you to be able to do your own sleep study in the comfort of your own home AND be able to make your own adjustments. Then the DME's...well you know that story.
Good Luck and don't be afraid to go toe to toe, Its your therapy, not theirs.
DB
P.S. Vosmaeri or Solomon?
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, DME, auto
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, DME, auto
Last edited by DerekB on Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
SelfSeeker
- Posts: 779
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:25 pm
Hello Rabid,
You got many great responses.
Did you ask the Dr why no alcohol before the test, especiall since you do it all the time?
When it comes to the machine, if worse comes to worse, ask your insurance if you can bye online. At CPAP.com you can use any CPAP RX and get the auto.
Make sure you get a copy of your Rx, titration and sleep study.
Good Luck
Derek nice bird.
You got many great responses.
Did you ask the Dr why no alcohol before the test, especiall since you do it all the time?
When it comes to the machine, if worse comes to worse, ask your insurance if you can bye online. At CPAP.com you can use any CPAP RX and get the auto.
Make sure you get a copy of your Rx, titration and sleep study.
Good Luck
Derek nice bird.
I can do this, I will do this.
My disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever worked in the health care field Just my personal opinions.
My disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever worked in the health care field Just my personal opinions.
[/quote]
Let's share our sleep experiences.
What kind of birds do you have?
[/quote]
Well since i too am a newbie (2 weeks) i dont really have a whole lot of stories to share. Doing pretty well adapting, just a few "minor" issues to tweak like equipment placement, slight rainout, etc. I'm pretty happy overall except last night i made a blunder and didnt assemble my nasal pillow correctly after cleaning....had a big blowout of air that took me over an hour to realize. LOL i wondered why the darned thing was so noisy all of a sudden. The only thing i regret is not doing this all sooner
I have 5 birds now. A cockatiel, an african gray, a cherry head conure (yikes talk about LOUD) and 2 budgies. I work for a parrot rescue group and adopted the conure and gray, while the wee budgies are foster birdies.
Let's share our sleep experiences.
What kind of birds do you have?
[/quote]
Well since i too am a newbie (2 weeks) i dont really have a whole lot of stories to share. Doing pretty well adapting, just a few "minor" issues to tweak like equipment placement, slight rainout, etc. I'm pretty happy overall except last night i made a blunder and didnt assemble my nasal pillow correctly after cleaning....had a big blowout of air that took me over an hour to realize. LOL i wondered why the darned thing was so noisy all of a sudden. The only thing i regret is not doing this all sooner
I have 5 birds now. A cockatiel, an african gray, a cherry head conure (yikes talk about LOUD) and 2 budgies. I work for a parrot rescue group and adopted the conure and gray, while the wee budgies are foster birdies.
-
Mile High Sleeper
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:48 pm
- Location: Colorado
- Contact:
reasons for APAP
Rabid1, if you talk to your doctor about APAP or compose a letter to him, have you seen this?
cpaptalk-articles/reasons-APAP.html
I do best on straight CPAP, but I would never have found the correct pressure without an APAP, in spite of two sleep studies. A great feature of an APAP machine is that it can provide CPAP or APAP.
The article under the light bulb/our collective wisdom on pressure settings, in addition to talking about pressure, talks about collaborating with your doctor.
Happy papping.
cpaptalk-articles/reasons-APAP.html
I do best on straight CPAP, but I would never have found the correct pressure without an APAP, in spite of two sleep studies. A great feature of an APAP machine is that it can provide CPAP or APAP.
The article under the light bulb/our collective wisdom on pressure settings, in addition to talking about pressure, talks about collaborating with your doctor.
Happy papping.
_________________
| Mask: Ultra Mirage™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: SleepZone heated hose, PAPillow, bed wedge, Grossan Hydro-Mate, SnuggleHose, AIEOMed Everest w/ hh, battery pack, DC cord, PadACheek, Headrest pillows |
Mile High Sleeper Gal
Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them. - Albert Einstein
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them. - Albert Einstein
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
Re: reasons for APAP
[quote="Mile High Sleeper"]Rabid1, if you talk to your doctor about APAP or compose a letter to him, have you seen this?
cpaptalk-articles/reasons-APAP.html
I do best on straight CPAP, but I would never have found the correct pressure without an APAP, in spite of two sleep studies. A great feature of an APAP machine is that it can provide CPAP or APAP.
The article under the light bulb/our collective wisdom on pressure settings, in addition to talking about pressure, talks about collaborating with your doctor.
Happy papping.
cpaptalk-articles/reasons-APAP.html
I do best on straight CPAP, but I would never have found the correct pressure without an APAP, in spite of two sleep studies. A great feature of an APAP machine is that it can provide CPAP or APAP.
The article under the light bulb/our collective wisdom on pressure settings, in addition to talking about pressure, talks about collaborating with your doctor.
Happy papping.
Wake me up when this is over...
Rabid.....I'm using an APAP with software.....and that allows me to tweak the pressure settings for best results. With software, you can see at which pressures most of your problems occur.....then, set the machine just a bit higher than where the problems develop. It's sort of like doing a "titration sleep study" on yourself every night.
Think of your machine as a "stint" that keeps your airway open......and you want just enough pressure to do the job....but not so much as to prevent sound sleep.
With an APAP machine, you can set the pressure "spread" so that your software report will show you which pressures have the most apneas, hypopneas, snores, and flow limitations. Over time, you'll narrow the pressure "spread" to give yourself the best results.
I was titrated (their best guess) at 9-cm.......and I now have my APAP set to range between 9-11 cm.
If I had only a CPAP machine capable of one pressure per session, it'd be harder for me to find my "sweet spot".......the point of minimal problems at the lowest pressure setting.
Don't settle for less than an APAP with your own software and card reader. Don't let them bully you into anything less.
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, APAP
Think of your machine as a "stint" that keeps your airway open......and you want just enough pressure to do the job....but not so much as to prevent sound sleep.
With an APAP machine, you can set the pressure "spread" so that your software report will show you which pressures have the most apneas, hypopneas, snores, and flow limitations. Over time, you'll narrow the pressure "spread" to give yourself the best results.
I was titrated (their best guess) at 9-cm.......and I now have my APAP set to range between 9-11 cm.
If I had only a CPAP machine capable of one pressure per session, it'd be harder for me to find my "sweet spot".......the point of minimal problems at the lowest pressure setting.
Don't settle for less than an APAP with your own software and card reader. Don't let them bully you into anything less.
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, APAP
[quote="Gerald"]Rabid.....I'm using an APAP with software.....and that allows me to tweak the pressure settings for best results. With software, you can see at which pressures most of your problems occur.....then, set the machine just a bit higher than where the problems develop. It's sort of like doing a "titration sleep study" on yourself every night.
Think of your machine as a "stint" that keeps your airway open......and you want just enough pressure to do the job....but not so much as to prevent sound sleep.
With an APAP machine, you can set the pressure "spread" so that your software report will show you which pressures have the most apneas, hypopneas, snores, and flow limitations. Over time, you'll narrow the pressure "spread" to give yourself the best results.
I was titrated (their best guess) at 9-cm.......and I now have my APAP set to range between 9-11 cm.
If I had only a CPAP machine capable of one pressure per session, it'd be harder for me to find my "sweet spot".......the point of minimal problems at the lowest pressure setting.
Don't settle for less than an APAP with your own software and card reader. Don't let them bully you into anything less.
Think of your machine as a "stint" that keeps your airway open......and you want just enough pressure to do the job....but not so much as to prevent sound sleep.
With an APAP machine, you can set the pressure "spread" so that your software report will show you which pressures have the most apneas, hypopneas, snores, and flow limitations. Over time, you'll narrow the pressure "spread" to give yourself the best results.
I was titrated (their best guess) at 9-cm.......and I now have my APAP set to range between 9-11 cm.
If I had only a CPAP machine capable of one pressure per session, it'd be harder for me to find my "sweet spot".......the point of minimal problems at the lowest pressure setting.
Don't settle for less than an APAP with your own software and card reader. Don't let them bully you into anything less.
Wake me up when this is over...
-
sleepybarb
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:41 am
Lots of friends here
Hi and welcome. You will find lots of friends here, some apparently with feathers! (A Military macaw and African gray share my space.) Re APAP; I got one, but use it on the auto function primarily to double check when I am not sleeping as well or after weight change. But I think its worth having particularly if you get the printout feedback when you are just starting out. Good luck!
Re: Lots of friends here
[quote="sleepybarb"]Hi and welcome. You will find lots of friends here, some apparently with feathers! (A Military macaw and African gray share my space.) Re APAP; I got one, but use it on the auto function primarily to double check when I am not sleeping as well or after weight change. But I think its worth having particularly if you get the printout feedback when you are just starting out. Good luck!
Wake me up when this is over...