Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

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jekettex
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Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by jekettex » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:37 am

Hi everyone I’m a new user here looking for potential advice and perhaps a place to vent my frustration. I'm a 23 year old male who weighs 194.8lbs at 1.76m (working on that). Apologies for the oncoming rant as well as asking for information already previously posted. I have researched to the best of my ability but my memory is far from great.

Around 5 years ago I slowly started getting tired during the day and unable to sleep at night. I believe the term is ‘tired but wired’. I’d wake up feeling like I’d been out all night and my body would ache to the point that it was all I could think about. Anyways it got so bad I could barely function and shortly after I became extremely depressed and nervous, twitchy wreck when confronted with any sort of external stress. While I’ve been able to manage this somewhat through meds (mirtazepene 15mg), I’m still exhausted most of the time and feel like a huge chunk of my personality responsible for interests, passion and desire to form relationships has been lost.

Since then I’ve been desperate to get myself out of this nightmare with not much success. During the whole 5 years I’ve had this I’ve barely worked. Its pretty crushing to watch my life pass me by as I had set myself up for a really bright future. Initially I was diagnosed with low T, so I went on injections for that with 0 success and a scary amount of tachycardia. My endo surmised it was depression causing low T, not vice versa and referred me to a psych. For a few years I treated it from a psychiatrist’s point of view, going through Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Valdoxan, Brintellix and finally Mirtazapine. I’ve remained on the latter as it’s the only one that seems to stabilize my mood but I’m still exhausted, anhedonic and slow. It feels like I’m underwater or mildly drunk.

After a brief stint trying to work abroad, I had a series of several panic attacks that led me to move back in with my parents in Singapore. I was in a particularly bad place at the time and felt like I’d exhausted all my options. I wanted more than anything to know what was wrong because I knew deep down it wasn’t just a mood disorder and I was sick of doctors telling me it was. When my mum suggested I see an ENT surgeon specialized in sleep disorders I rolled my eyes because I assumed I would get the same response, but I went anyway. The doctor examined me and found I had a deviated septum, enlarged adenoids, swollen turbinates and a scalloped tongue, suggesting it was too big for my mouth. He sent me home to do a sleep study on 8/05/2018 and upon my return found I had a rather high RDI and diagnosed me with UARS. I've attached the initial study, sorry about the garbled writing all over it.

Imagesleep test page 1 by jack schulkins, on FlickrImagesleep test page 2 by jack schulkins, on Flickr

I was ecstatic as I finally thought I’d found a solution not knowing that it can be really difficult to actually treat. The doctor suggested I go in for surgery to correct my septum, reduce my turbinates/adenoids and get a MAD fitted. In hindsight I realise the fact he was a surgeon meant he pushed surgery as the only option where I should have explored a bit first, but I was far too eager to care. I had surgery in June 2018 and saw some difference in my breathing but really nothing major with regards to sleep. Interestingly I felt like I slept better than I had in years after coming out of general anaesthetic, despite being under for only a couple hours. Another sleep study two months later confirmed there had been no change. I had a custom MAD made as well which I have worn every night for about 6 months despite no results. I relayed all this information to my doctor and he shrugged, said I probably have CFS and gave me a counsellor’s card. I wanted to scream.

On December 20th 2018 I began using an APAP machine (Resmed Autoset for Her) with nasal pillows at a pressure range of 4 – 20, EPR set to 1 and using the for her algorithm. Everything untouched out the box aside from the algorithm as I read the latter may be more suited for my condition. I just bought it and started using it as I’m in the UK right now and can’t really find any doctors to advise me here. I discontinued using my MAD 1 or 2 days after as in conjunction with my nasal pillows my mouth couldn’t close and I drooled everywhere. I now tape my mouth instead. I'd definitely wear it in conjunction with APAP if i could find a way to keep my lips sealed but I find myself constantly waking up blowing bubbles under wet tape. I didn’t really have any problem falling asleep (no more than usual anyway) and found it pretty comfortable. What’s interesting though is I actually felt better after the first use. I woke up the next day actually feeling refreshed. Aspects of myself I thought were long gone came back. I wanted to resume hobbies I hadn’t picked up in years. I was a lot more positive and sociable instead of withdrawn and aloof because I wasn’t constantly ruminating on the way I felt. I actually had some sort of libido (this wasn’t immediate). I also had some wildly vivid dreams. I didn’t feel 100% but it was definitely a huge improvement and I actually felt like I was making some sort of meaningful progress. And then after two weeks everything just kinda of went away… I’m feeling the same way I did before I started using the APAP. I’ve gone from 4 -20 to 6 -20 and finally 10 -15 (out of desperation, trying to match where pressure hovers around most of the night), leaving 5 days to adjust to each cm and set EPR to 3 at the same time I began adjusting pressure and really haven’t seen a whole lot of difference. I’ve tried incorporating a snoring head strap to stop my jaw from slacking but I for some reason do not sleep at all while wearing it (working on that). I’m feeling pretty depressed about the whole thing as I was reminded of the way I used to feel just to have it taken away and I’m not really sure what other options I have aside from biPAP which is something I’m not considering just yet as I just got the APAP and don't really want to miss out on any therapeutic potential. I’ve been looking at my sleepyhead data but I understand it’s not particularly effective when trying to treat UARS, though I’m happy to post it if anyone feels they could provide any insight.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. Some days I’m not even sure I have UARS, despite the sleep studies indicating otherwise. Then again, the initial results from APAP make me think that my problems do lie in SDB. I’m aware that it’s still early days and I’ve only been on APAP for around a month or so but I’m apprehensive about waiting for a long period of time to see benefits as I was told to do the same for surgery and MAD with absolutely nothing to show for it. Based on these studies I’m curious to know what other people think. How should I proceed? Can anyone recommend any professionals to advise me in the UK? The london sleep center claims they recognise and treat UARS but I have developed a very cynical attitude towards doctors so I'm skeptical. Heck thanks to an extremely supportive family (i'm very lucky in that regard. Hats off to anyone who has to do this alone) I'm willing to travel to the US if I feel like I had a chance of finding effective treatment there. Also has anyone else with UARS or even OSA had initial great results only to have them disappear? I’ll take any advice I can. Again, sorry if there are threads that answer my questions, I have likely read them only to forget I’ve read them lol. Thanks for your time.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by Pugsy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:48 am

Welcome to the forum.

First thing I want you to do is learn how to look at the flow rate of your breathing in SleepyHead.
Go here and watch the videos...I know it talks about apnea events from awake vs asleep vs arousal breathing mainly but what I want you to do is learn how to zoom in and scroll through the flow rate and get accustomed to spotting asleep breathing vs irregular breathing.
It's a crash course I know...but you gotta start somewhere.
Asleep breathing is nice and rhythmic and regular....arousal breathing isn't.

You need to be able to spot arousal breathing...that's the goal for you.
Your AHI is going to be useless since you don't have OSA...those numbers won't help you.
What we are looking for is evidence of crappy sleeping first...how many arousals (you may or may not remember them) are you having during the night.

Then tell me what mode you are using on your machine...you have the For Her model???
The AirSense 10 for Her model? Are you using regular auto mode or the for Her mode?

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by jekettex » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:47 am

Hi Pugsy, thanks for the welcome!

I'm more than willing to learn whatever I can. I can't seem to see a link to the videos you're suggesting, unless I'm missing something. Also with regards to your questions, I have the airsense 10 for her model set to the for her mode, as I was told it was more sensitive to UARS. Thanks again.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by Pugsy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:50 am


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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by nikkwong » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:52 am

Hey;

Your situation sounds remarkably close to mine. You might want to look into the lingual tonsils and/or epiglottis. I did some searches on the web and found dr kerizians blog on how the epiglottis can contribute to 10% of sleep apnea cases and not respond well to CPAP treatment.

I emailed him and he suggested speaking to a specialist who was acutely atuned to issues involving the epiglottis and/or uars. There happened to be one in my city, his resident, dr Edward weaver in Seattle. Weaver knows far more than any other practitioner I've ever talked to (dozens at this point) and I'm awaiting final surgery (there were 3 previous) in which he's supposed to prop my floppy epiglottis up and cure me for good.

Hoping for the best. The CPAP won't always work for everyone. I'm currently using a mad while waiting for the surgical treatment. Wishing you the best.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by David1447 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:47 am

jekettex wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:37 am
Hi everyone I’m a new user here looking for potential advice and perhaps a place to vent my frustration. I'm a 23 year old male who weighs 194.8lbs at 1.76m (working on that). Apologies for the oncoming rant as well as asking for information already previously posted. I have researched to the best of my ability but my memory is far from great.

Around 5 years ago I slowly started getting tired during the day and unable to sleep at night. I believe the term is ‘tired but wired’. I’d wake up feeling like I’d been out all night and my body would ache to the point that it was all I could think about. Anyways it got so bad I could barely function and shortly after I became extremely depressed and nervous, twitchy wreck when confronted with any sort of external stress. While I’ve been able to manage this somewhat through meds (mirtazepene 15mg), I’m still exhausted most of the time and feel like a huge chunk of my personality responsible for interests, passion and desire to form relationships has been lost.

Since then I’ve been desperate to get myself out of this nightmare with not much success. During the whole 5 years I’ve had this I’ve barely worked. Its pretty crushing to watch my life pass me by as I had set myself up for a really bright future. Initially I was diagnosed with low T, so I went on injections for that with 0 success and a scary amount of tachycardia. My endo surmised it was depression causing low T, not vice versa and referred me to a psych. For a few years I treated it from a psychiatrist’s point of view, going through Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Valdoxan, Brintellix and finally Mirtazapine. I’ve remained on the latter as it’s the only one that seems to stabilize my mood but I’m still exhausted, anhedonic and slow. It feels like I’m underwater or mildly drunk.

After a brief stint trying to work abroad, I had a series of several panic attacks that led me to move back in with my parents in Singapore. I was in a particularly bad place at the time and felt like I’d exhausted all my options. I wanted more than anything to know what was wrong because I knew deep down it wasn’t just a mood disorder and I was sick of doctors telling me it was. When my mum suggested I see an ENT surgeon specialized in sleep disorders I rolled my eyes because I assumed I would get the same response, but I went anyway. The doctor examined me and found I had a deviated septum, enlarged adenoids, swollen turbinates and a scalloped tongue, suggesting it was too big for my mouth. He sent me home to do a sleep study on 8/05/2018 and upon my return found I had a rather high RDI and diagnosed me with UARS. I've attached the initial study, sorry about the garbled writing all over it.

Imagesleep test page 1 by jack schulkins, on FlickrImagesleep test page 2 by jack schulkins, on Flickr

I was ecstatic as I finally thought I’d found a solution not knowing that it can be really difficult to actually treat. The doctor suggested I go in for surgery to correct my septum, reduce my turbinates/adenoids and get a MAD fitted. In hindsight I realise the fact he was a surgeon meant he pushed surgery as the only option where I should have explored a bit first, but I was far too eager to care. I had surgery in June 2018 and saw some difference in my breathing but really nothing major with regards to sleep. Interestingly I felt like I slept better than I had in years after coming out of general anaesthetic, despite being under for only a couple hours. Another sleep study two months later confirmed there had been no change. I had a custom MAD made as well which I have worn every night for about 6 months despite no results. I relayed all this information to my doctor and he shrugged, said I probably have CFS and gave me a counsellor’s card. I wanted to scream.

On December 20th 2018 I began using an APAP machine (Resmed Autoset for Her) with nasal pillows at a pressure range of 4 – 20, EPR set to 1 and using the for her algorithm. Everything untouched out the box aside from the algorithm as I read the latter may be more suited for my condition. I just bought it and started using it as I’m in the UK right now and can’t really find any doctors to advise me here. I discontinued using my MAD 1 or 2 days after as in conjunction with my nasal pillows my mouth couldn’t close and I drooled everywhere. I now tape my mouth instead. I'd definitely wear it in conjunction with APAP if i could find a way to keep my lips sealed but I find myself constantly waking up blowing bubbles under wet tape. I didn’t really have any problem falling asleep (no more than usual anyway) and found it pretty comfortable. What’s interesting though is I actually felt better after the first use. I woke up the next day actually feeling refreshed. Aspects of myself I thought were long gone came back. I wanted to resume hobbies I hadn’t picked up in years. I was a lot more positive and sociable instead of withdrawn and aloof because I wasn’t constantly ruminating on the way I felt. I actually had some sort of libido (this wasn’t immediate). I also had some wildly vivid dreams. I didn’t feel 100% but it was definitely a huge improvement and I actually felt like I was making some sort of meaningful progress. And then after two weeks everything just kinda of went away… I’m feeling the same way I did before I started using the APAP. I’ve gone from 4 -20 to 6 -20 and finally 10 -15 (out of desperation, trying to match where pressure hovers around most of the night), leaving 5 days to adjust to each cm and set EPR to 3 at the same time I began adjusting pressure and really haven’t seen a whole lot of difference. I’ve tried incorporating a snoring head strap to stop my jaw from slacking but I for some reason do not sleep at all while wearing it (working on that). I’m feeling pretty depressed about the whole thing as I was reminded of the way I used to feel just to have it taken away and I’m not really sure what other options I have aside from biPAP which is something I’m not considering just yet as I just got the APAP and don't really want to miss out on any therapeutic potential. I’ve been looking at my sleepyhead data but I understand it’s not particularly effective when trying to treat UARS, though I’m happy to post it if anyone feels they could provide any insight.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. Some days I’m not even sure I have UARS, despite the sleep studies indicating otherwise. Then again, the initial results from APAP make me think that my problems do lie in SDB. I’m aware that it’s still early days and I’ve only been on APAP for around a month or so but I’m apprehensive about waiting for a long period of time to see benefits as I was told to do the same for surgery and MAD with absolutely nothing to show for it. Based on these studies I’m curious to know what other people think. How should I proceed? Can anyone recommend any professionals to advise me in the UK? The london sleep center claims they recognise and treat UARS but I have developed a very cynical attitude towards doctors so I'm skeptical. Heck thanks to an extremely supportive family (i'm very lucky in that regard. Hats off to anyone who has to do this alone) I'm willing to travel to the US if I feel like I had a chance of finding effective treatment there. Also has anyone else with UARS or even OSA had initial great results only to have them disappear? I’ll take any advice I can. Again, sorry if there are threads that answer my questions, I have likely read them only to forget I’ve read them lol. Thanks for your time.
Damn if we weren't separated in birth. 23 years old, at 10.8 rdi, scalloped tongue with removed adenoids and tonsils when I was younger. I'm quite a bit taller at 1.90 and weigh at 86.7 kg as of this morning.

Man, I feel you so much. I was there. I'm still there, but know that you do have an issue, you shouldn't have any doubt about that. Everyone will shrug you off so from experience, confide in as few people as possible and to those provide adequate explanations of your symptoms.

I think my issues started very young, but I had some pause after the surgery for tonsils. I used to wet the bed and think that stopped around the surgery, which is connected to uars/osa in children.

I sympathize with the improvement and the going away of the improvement. As far as I understand, you've not been on your autoset for long and did not calibrate it using the data on sleepyhead. DO THAT. This is your top priority and you must see to it you know exactly how your flow patterns look and what the estimated ahi numbers and event numbers are for you, if they cluster around rem or back sleep, etc. Just study yourself this way. It will take a month or two, to be sure.

Next thing to do in conjunction... The mask. I tried nasal pillows and nasal masks and really really, really wanted them to work. Even a hybrid mask, the dreamwear ffm, did not fare well with me. I don't know why but I feel like I'm suffocating with nasal pillows sometimes. It doesn't feel right, I'm a mouth and nose breather. Full face masks were the only mask type that worked with me out of the ones I tried, and I had to try three before finding a good fit.

After that, also in conjunction, start tweaking pressures. Settings and modes in your machine. Try higher try lower, try everything and see the results in sleepyhead. I settled on 13.5 - 20 pressures but yours might be 8-12 and they might be 18-20, you can't know until you look through the data and how you feel and determine exactly the best possible pressure.

I too had the rebound and still do have rebounds of that great feeling. Some days I wake up and feel like I can own the world. Others I'm dry inside, arid like a girl being talked up by an incel. BUT, the trend, it's there. Two months of total therapy, maybe two or three weeks of effective therapy in total, and my bad days are slowly turning to mediocre days. My ability to form relationships is slowly improving. I look people in the eyes and no longer have super fucked days where I stay in all day and have none of the nerve to even go out and buy milk because I'm scared of talking to somebody. Damn man, you don't know how bad I feel what you're saying. You need to man up and push through the shit, because there's a lot of it, and your shovel isn't very effective for now.

As soon you as you get in the groove, that's when you can relax and just experience days as they come. Even if some will suck, you know that they suck just a little bit less than the same sucky days from last week. I know I haven't been doing this nearly enough time, but I just felt like writing this out might make you feel less alone in the world, so I went for it. If you've got any questions, go for it. Good luck.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:59 am

Pet peeve: People who unnecessarily quote a long post and gum up the thread. :(

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:46 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:59 am
Pet peeve: People who unnecessarily quote a long post and gum up the thread. :(
Still nowhere near a record . . .

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by jekettex » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:10 pm

Hello everyone!
What we are looking for is evidence of crappy sleeping first...how many arousals (you may or may not remember them) are you having during the night.
Pugsy - I've watched the videos thrice and believe I have a somewhat acceptable grasp on my normal sleeping breathing vs arousal breathing. I picked a particularly bad night and counted 95 deviancies from the rhythmic pattern at a pressure range of 4 - 20 over roughly eleven hours. Whether they all were arousals I cannot say. A lot of them were obvious with others less so. 16 of the deviancies I bookmarked looked like this:

ImageScreen Shot 2019-01-21 at 4.45.10 PM by jack schulkins, on Flickr

I'm unsure of whether to count them or not as there are usually no other disturbances close by. I guess I'm just sighing? There are quite a few where I believe I don't actually wake up as well but my breathing looks really ragged so I made a note of those as well. I don't know if this matters but I've noticed the machine hardly ever tags RERAs despite it being the hallmark of my condition. I'm guessing (and hoping) it's just not very good at it. Another thing I've noticed most nights is my flow limit spiking in several clusters. Could that indicate I'm struggling to stay in REM? I should probably put that on the back burner, I may be getting ahead of myself...

Thanks again! :D

@nikkwong

Hi :)
I'll keep that in mind. Do you have a link for the blog? That sounds really interesting. I wonder if I should get a second opinion from another ENT as I've only seen the one and only. Can I ask what your other three surgeries were and how successful each one was? How'd you find the MAD? I really hope this surgery works for you. Regardless, I'd love to hear how it goes. Wishing all the best back to you.

@ David1447
Damn if we weren't separated in birth. 23 years old, at 10.8 rdi, scalloped tongue with removed adenoids and tonsils when I was younger. I'm quite a bit taller at 1.90 and weigh at 86.7 kg as of this morning.
Yikes, it's wonderful and awful to find someone in a situation so similar to mine. For the most part I've gotten better at telling myself I'm not crazy, but it does get to me sometimes. I've also learnt as you said to keep only a select few I trust in the loop. I've had some pretty disappointing reactions that made me doubt myself and think I was making a mountain out of a molehill. Sometimes I forget that my normal isn't everyone else's normal as I've been stuck this way for too long. The bright spots here and there remind me I'm not supposed to feel like this.

With regards to the autoset, you're right I've only been on it for just over a month. I'm still getting to grips with the data and understanding what it can and can't offer me. I have tried calibrating it in a sense, based on where my pressure tends to hang about when I set it to free range. Seems to be about 10 - 12 but if anything I feel worse. That could very well be due to aerophagia (I didn't realise how unpleasant that could be until last night) and mouth leaks. Also I have noticed that my flow limit spikes in several clusters throughout the night, though I've yet to find a pressure that affects it in any meaningful way. With regards to the nasal pillows I find them to be quite comfortable actually, it's just the issue of my mouth turning into an air jet at higher pressures. I'll be seeing someone in February so I'll inquire about other options then.

Your second last paragraph gives me hope. I really really hope it comes back. Even for just a few days, the feeling reminds me that its worth it to keep trying. I know what you mean with the good days and the bad. I can come across as insane person because one day I want to spend the whole day being productive and sociable and the next I react with physical pain just looking out my window. Those super fucked up days lol. They're the worst but I gotta laugh because I too have many days where I'm horrified at the prospect of having to do something like post a letter.

It feels amazing to be able to speak to others who understand my situation and are willing to provide constructive advice. I'm still pretty determined to fix this, even more so now. The problems come when I feel like I've run out of things to try. Good luck to you too, I hope to hear from you again.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by Snoregone Conclusion » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:08 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:59 am
Pet peeve: People who unnecessarily quote a long post and gum up the thread. :(
Quoting like that exists for the reason that in a linear list for a conversation instead of a hierarchy/tree form, it helps clarify which posts are being responded to, so helps with making it easier to read, up to a point. A way to make that far less likely is to have the hierarchical form instead.

Of course, I’d not be surprised if you found a reason to hate the results, there, too. :mrgreen:

(Yes, I quoted you because of course, you were all but demanding to be quoted! :lol: )

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:39 pm

Snoregone Conclusion wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:08 pm
Quoting like that exists for the reason that in a linear list for a conversation instead of a hierarchy/tree form, it helps clarify which posts are being responded to, so helps with making it easier to read, up to a point.
Your "up to a point" criterium is exceeded in the context under discussion.

If that is really needed, one can quote like this without gumming up the works with duplicates:
jekettex wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:37 am
Hi everyone I’m a new user here ...
Or even better, just say, "Replying to the original post."

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by Snoregone Conclusion » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:54 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:39 pm
Snoregone Conclusion wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:08 pm
Quoting like that exists for the reason that in a linear list for a conversation instead of a hierarchy/tree form, it helps clarify which posts are being responded to, so helps with making it easier to read, up to a point.
Your "up to a point" criterium is exceeded in the context under discussion.

If that is really needed, one can quote like this without gumming up the works with duplicates:
jekettex wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:37 am
Hi everyone I’m a new user here ...
Or even better, just say, "Replying to the original post."
What I see here is someone trying to control another user to use the software in a manner that they find pleasing, while the user that this someone is trying to control is using it as it was designed to be used.

The better solution is to appeal to the powers that be to get the software to function in a manner most pleasing, instead of trying to groom users to do your bidding all the time, as that tends to result in other than what you desire. Why should they allow themselves to be controlled in such a manner?

I hope you're not trying to train me on the ways of the forumware or computer topics in general: my background is such that the odds are incredibly low (perhaps not zero) you'd know something in this field that I don't already, or that I couldn't learn quickly. I've been online since the late 80's and writing software since before that, and I'm far from limited to a single platform or language, etc.

Of course, the reality is the best you can hope to do is to restrict software to being so controlled that it's mostly useless: the more powerful and flexible it is, the more probable people will find ways to use it that were never intended or anticipated by the original designers. Microsoft Excel is a great example of that: people have created video games in it, as one example.

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by musculus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:42 pm

A large tongue can be difficult to treat...normal CPAP pressure is not enough to cut it (at least for me), while high pressure causes its own issues: leaking air, etc.

Try sleeping more in the prone position, from the report (also based on human anatomy), the prone sleep will be so much better.

Tongue retaining device such as below should work if you can tolerate using it. It can be used together with certain CPAP mask.

https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Snoring-Sol ... 29&sr=8-16

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Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by jekettex » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:16 pm

Thanks for your reply musculus!

I'm starting to realise that normal pressures might not cut it for me either... High pressures I'm still experimenting with and I feel like a change of mask might help out there. I almost always fall asleep in the prone position but unfortunately don't have much control over it whilst asleep. I'll try to be mindful of re-adjusting myself whenever I wake up enough to be conscious (which happens enough). With regards to the tongue retaining device, I reckon I'd be fine with it as I didn't really have any problems with a MAD. In your opinion is there any benefit of using it over a MAD? The device itself cost a lot and I was told it held the tongue back, so I'm wondering if the one you linked would hold any advantage over it.

musculus
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:35 am

Re: Treating UARS after surgery, MAD and possibly aPAP failure. Looking for advice on how to proceed.

Post by musculus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:29 pm

NP. The TRD pulls the tongue out more effectively than MAD. They also put pressure on the teeth, but to a smaller extent.

There used to be lots of sellers on Amazon. Try to find the largest size possible.

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