Meds to Increase REM?

Swordz · Post by **Swordz** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:42 pm

Upon recieving my last sleep study, I found out that I have low amounts of REM. The normal person's sleep includes 20-25% of sleep consisting of REM, whereas my sleep is about 5%. Even though after surgery my AHI went from 52 to 3/hr, I still feel really fatigued becuase my sleep isn't "good" sleep.

Is anyone aware, or currently taking medication that increases REM?

curtcurt46 · Post by **curtcurt46** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:49 pm

You will most likely over time get back to the correct/normal for each of the sleep stage provided you have corrected your OSA. The untreated OSA has gotten your sleep patterns out of sort/wack and will take time to normalize.
curtcurt46

IBTeri · Post by **IBTeri** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:16 pm

Thats where I to have my spells of not breathing. Doctor said that was the only place I have it. My body never lets me stay in REM. Just letting you know I understand how you feel in the morning.

Limestone · Post by **Limestone** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:27 pm

Swordz,

I to am in the same boat and the answer that I am consistently getting echoes that of CurtCurt46.What I believe ( and have no proof of ) is that it is a result of long term untreated OSA.If you do happen upon that magic pill,please let me know.Hang in there ,it appears that some of us are going to have to wait a little longer for complete our sleep cycles to realign with the planets.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:42 pm

melatonin, been used since the 50's. You can get it at GNC and nearly everywhere. You can take up to 6mg/day. If you get the 3mg tabs, I would take 2 the first night, then 1 the next. Try it for a week.

if you wake up at your regular time groggy, then cut back on the dose.

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:00 pm

FWIW, a friend of mine told me he had to stop taking prescription pain meds at night, because they were preventing him from getting
REM sleep.(according to his doctor)

Krelvin · Post by **Krelvin** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:14 am

This was pre-CPAP... but when my Dr. put me on Zocor, I noticed that I started having very vivid dreams. I even mentioned it when I next saw the Dr.

I never thought about it much since I started looking into OAS and getting tested etc... but I wonder if it cause more REM sleep.

The effect eventually wore off... or my OAS just got worse, not sure.

In my Sleep study, I got 0 REM before CPAP was tried. In fact, I never got past the first 2 levels... I just kept bouncing up and down between 1 and 2.

I am now having very vivid dreams again for the past week or two. The new machine is working well I think.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:08 pm

I know I have read posts here from people who take Xyrem for this.

Swordz · Post by **Swordz** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:07 pm

Xyrem!! That's the med I was trying to figure out. I've heard that stuff is effective in increasing REM, but it's a highly controlled substance as it's a serious narcotic and quite a powerful drug.

My personal opinion on Melatonin is that's not really effective. I believe alot of people read stuff about it and think it's going to help, but really the placebo effect takes hold. I'm seen so many reports for and against melatonin, that's it really hard to get a grasp on its effectiveness.

Isn't it crazy what we'll do to get a good nights sleep!

Limestone · Post by **Limestone** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:25 pm

Here is a link to some XYrem info and it does look like nasty stuff.Anyone here taking it?

http://www.drugs.com/xyrem.html

KansasRT · Post by **KansasRT** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:01 am

Xyrem is the "date rape drug". It is my understanding that this is a treatment for narcolepsy. It helps narcoleptics get good rem sleep so their daytime symptoms are not as severe. I have worked with patients on this medication and they have had success. It is very expensive and difficult to obtain. I have never heard of it being used for sleep apnea. I am sure that somewhere, someone is using it off label.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Swordz wrote:
My personal opinion on Melatonin is that's not really effective. I believe alot of people read stuff about it and think it's going to help, but really the placebo effect takes hold. I'm seen so many reports for and against melatonin, that's it really hard to get a grasp on its effectiveness.

Isn't it crazy what we'll do to get a good nights sleep!

It was not effective for you would be more accurate.

It was probably NOT effective because you are NOT deficient in melatonin production based upon your age. In fact, I don't think you really know why you cannot sleep.

Then when you only take .3mcg of it, then I'd consider that to be a placebo, could also be why you found it totally ineffective.

There is a Norwegian study where they tested it on 1400 women with doses as high as 75mg/day. Why didn't it have any negative effects on them?

don't just tell me something is bad, tell me why it is bad or what damage it causes, so far I have not seen ANY proof that melatonin is bad for you.

NONE. Show us 1 negative report other than one from some FDA doctor who was late for the FDA conference (he must have sleep in with his free sample of ambien).

melatonin.com reports to date there have been 4 complaints logged with the FDA against melatonin in nearly 50 years use. It was tested by the US military going back as far as 1947 on soldiers to reset their circadian rhythms after long bombing missions and not found non-toxic.

Nearly all the naysayers against melatonin are doctors, all they can say is it is bad for you, but cannot explain to you why or how it is bad for you other than it is a hormone and adverse effects are "unknown".

How many frigging years of testing do these doctors need?

If they can't find it toxic they say it is ineffective yet it is being used by millions every night. Why are the doctors so against it? Why won't they reveal in their studies the problem it causes or doesn't cause?

Could it be they are being paid by the drug makers of ambien, lunestra and all the other $200/mo drugs that have 50 times more toxicity than melatonin. Tylenol has more toxicity than melatonin. Ever watch TV? every other commercial is a sleep ad for Ambien or viagra.

If a drug is bad for you it is toxic, search for melatonin toxicity, if it is so bad as you say there should be hundreds if not thousands of toxicity reports. go to fda.gov, search for toxicity reports. Search any place you want, you won't find any. Why is that?

I can see not giving it to pregnant women and children but that is the recommended action for most medications. Every study I have ever read says our levels of melatonin drop as we get older, taking supplemental melatonin simply brings that level back up, if your normal to begin with then it won't do anything for you.

From melatonin.com:

Is melatonin safe?
Melatonin is one of the least toxic substances known. People have taken as much as 6 grams (600 to 3000 times the normal dosage) of the substance in carefully monitored studies with no sign of toxicity. Only four complaints regarding melatonin have been report to the FDA (USA's Food and Drug Administration). The only consistent side effect of high doses has been drowsiness and a slower reaction time. In the most extensive clinical trial to date a high dose of 75 milligrams of melatonin per day was given to 1400 women in the Netherlands for up to four years with no ill effects. The FDA reports that in the more than two years melatonin has been available for sale over-the-counter in the United States, no alarming side effects have been reported.

.

Melatonin is not a FDA controlled substance, reason most doctors hate it. If any of the statements made on melatonin.com were inaccurate as far as the FDA is concerned, you can be sure they would shut the site down. Search fda.gov for complaints, the FDA has sent warning letters out to many websites making unsubstantiated claims, they don't last long when they do. melatonin.com has been up for many years now.

Mask