Compliance vs Usage Time

[RebOSA]

Hi there, brand new to this forum, a CPAP veteran of sorts.

Been on CPAP for 11 years using mainly one machine, a Fisher and Pykel that produced very little user data. Had OSA most my life, but was only diagnosed 11 years ago...have worn my CPAP mask every night since (besides a camping trip where there was no power) never really feeling much relief.

I just bought a BMC GII Luna which has on-screen data as well as Icode data. Haven't been able to retrieve any Icode data yet, but that is not the main question I have.

So, here's my main question: The on screen data shows compliance time and Usage time amongst other items. Can anyone tell me the difference between these?

My compliance times have show between 1 and 4 hours per night and a weekly compliance of 8 hours...have used the machine 5 nights now. The total usage time shows 50 hours (which is what I would have thought compliance time was too). Is the machine somehow tracking actual "proper" sleep and reporting that as "compliance"?

[RogerSC]

A "compliant night" requires at least 4 hours of machine use in a single night. Doesn't have to be a block of 4 hours straight, but it has to be during a single night.

At least that used to be the case. I assume that it still is. Generally compliance is tracked by number of days that you have a compliant night rather than number of hours.

[Julie]

The point being that compliance time is used to show the insurance co. (presuming you're using one) that you're complying with machine use at least 4 hrs/night (there's more to it but other U.S. members can explain) so they'll pay for the machine. But of course you also know that the time's not enough in terms of being healthy and that usage time is what counts as far as you're actually concerned for you to feel better.

If you've e.g. never had your min. pressure upped from the machine's default low in 11 yrs it's possible you've never been adequately treated. I suggest you post a couple of nights' worth of data so we can see what's what, but having never even heard of your machine I doubt it's compatible with the software most here use - Sleepyhead - so will not be able to tell us more than e.g. AHI, pressure settings, mask type, etc... but even those would help us to help you.

[RebOSA]

Thanks for the replies Roger and Julie.

Roger you are right I think about the 4 hour compliance time for insurance, but I own the machine outright and have never got a cent from insurance (which I had when I got my first)...so its irrelevent from that perspective. I'm just keen to know why I'm asleep from 8-11 hours but the machine says 1, 2 or 4 hours a night compliance so far.

Julie, my first machine was set at 11.0 after the first month or so. The doc initially ordered 12.5, but dropped it back. So it'd been 11 all along and given I've never gotten much relief even though I was discharged by this doc as "fixed". This need machine I have worked out clinician settings and set it to 11.5 to start. The AHI has been 0 some nights up to 1.1 at its peak. This would suggest I should feel awesome when I wake, but no, still feel tired. There is also an SNI number which is Snoring Index, which so far has run between 2 and 11. Then there is Litres per Minute leakage which has run between 33 and 52. That's about all the useful info I've gotten so far.

I use a full-face mask after I was given the run around on masks in the first year by my supplier. First mask sold to me as great was a nasal pillow one...dumped it after 3 weeks as it gave me really bad nostril burn and flooded my nose with wetness and whistled all night. Forked out more money to the supplier for a nasal mask only to then be told I should buy a chin strap that cost $50 for a piece of velcroed cloth. After just over a year my humidifier broke down and I tried to contact the supplier 4 times and got no response. I figured warranty would be 12 months so stopped chasing it. I was suffering deep depression at the time so my motivation was low. i gave up and never returned to that supplier Years later I found out the machine probably had 4 years warranty. So now I go it alone, finding my masks as cheaply as I can. And I got a bargain on this new machine which seems to be very good asides the data mysteries. I'm in Australia and they sell this machine online for $800 with a mask included (which is cheap enough as CPAP goes), but I paid $320 (brand new) with FF mask, carry case, hosing, machine and humidifier unit which clip together. The quality is great...except for working out how to use and download the data...which there is a youtube video on, but its not terribly good cos reality and theory have a slight gap lol. I have 2 Android apps for it and both ask for information and then say the format isn't right. One asks for the machine serial number which has Alpha's in it but won't allow alphas to be entered and then says wrong number when you leave the alpha's out...a little bit frustrating to say the least.

Anyway, thanks for any help anyone might provide. I'm in Australia by the way. Cheers.

[Pugsy]

Disregard the compliance numbers.

I am not familiar with the Luna but it sounds like the way the Respironics did the compliance reporting on screen/
I think it means how many nights you have met the 4 hour usual minimum compliance thing.
It should continually go up the longer you use it.
I think it will likely max out at 30..when you have used it 30 nights.
It's how many nights you used the machine at least 4 hours and that's all it means. Pretty useless for your needs.
You already know how many hours you slept and used the machine.

[RebOSA]

Thanks Pugsy, I was coming to the same conclusion myself. I actually think the machine is incorrectly reporting overnight data cos last night it had zeroes on everything when I woke after about 7 hours. I went back to sleep for just over an hour more and compliance reported 2 hours, AHI still 0 and SNI was at 5. Makes it hard to trust what numbers it puts up...although the 7 day numbers look fair. I'm going to do a default restore and see if it fixes anything.

[D.H.]

Usage time is probably the amount of time that the machine was blowing; mask on or not. Compliance time is how long the motor was blowing while the mask was on!

The F&P (which I guess was the 230 series) only reported blower hours.

[RebOSA]

Thanks DH, but in another thread Julie has solved the issue for me without even realising it lol.

One thing to remember is that machines usually clock from noon to noon, so if you look at last nite's results after noon, you won't get a full picture. If that helps anything.

I have a reversed sleep pattern or insomnia or something. Anyway, I sleep generally from around 5am-7am until 2-4pm. So if the machine is resetting the overnight data at noon, it explains it perfectly for each day. The day I woke when it showed zero on everything was about 12.15pm. I went back to sleep for just over 1.5 hours and it showed 2 hours compliance. Today I woke just after 3.30pm, it showed 4 hours compliance. Thank-you so much Julie, my machine is not a dud data collector, its doing just what its supposed to!

[D.H.]

Thanks DH, but in another thread Julie has solved the issue for me without even realising it lol.

One thing to remember is that machines usually clock from noon to noon, so if you look at last nite's results after noon, you won't get a full picture. If that helps anything.

I have a reversed sleep pattern or insomnia or something. Anyway, I sleep generally from around 5am-7am until 2-4pm. So if the machine is resetting the overnight data at noon, it explains it perfectly for each day. The day I woke when it showed zero on everything was about 12.15pm. I went back to sleep for just over 1.5 hours and it showed 2 hours compliance. Today I woke just after 3.30pm, it showed 4 hours compliance. Thank-you so much Julie, my machine is not a dud data collector, its doing just what its supposed to!

If you sleep approximately the same number of hours every elapsed 24 hour period, and do so at approximately the same times, your compliance numbers should be good whether your cutoff is noon, midnight, or any other time. If your pattern is irregular, you might be over one day and under the next, but the daily average should still be good.

[RebOSA]

Yep, the 7 day averages look right. The overnight number is an actual, not an average, so with the cutoff at noon it makes it look abnormal. I think if I woke and looked at 11.30am it would show a very different set of numbers to 12.30.