Not sure what to do

curtcurt46 · Post by **curtcurt46** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:17 pm

Is it very humid in your house where you live? The greater the humidity in the room you sleep in the more efficient you humidifier will be at making humidity and this could result in rain out. Have you tried no humidity at all(no water in the tank)?

whatrdreamsmadeof · Post by **whatrdreamsmadeof** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:45 pm

Melissa I am sorry you are having this problem. Just a thought, is the hose extended near a window or outside wall if it is maybe the hose is staying cooler even with the comfort sleeve which may cause the condensation process to cause the rainout?
I do keep my house very cold, but the window panes and outside wall in my bedroom are always so cold the panes fog up........hope this helps.

NyNurse33 · Post by **NyNurse33** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:58 pm

I want to apologize if I made anyone feel that their ideas aren't innovative, or helpful. Some work for me and some do not, but I still appreciate all of them. Curt-you talked about humidity in my house, I honestly don't know, only that it is not very humid here in NY this time of year, but what the heck do I know, I'm only talking about what I feel, not based on actual facts. I should go buy the "gadget" from Loews to check on humidity. I've read people talk about passover humidifier. So if I turn off the heat dial, I will still get some humidity? Is this true for my machine too? I'm really afraid of not putting water in or turning the dial off, b/c I think it will dry out my nasal passages. I had it turned off once and I had problems the very next day. I'm wondering if I'll be able to ever use my CL2 again, maybe not even in the warmer season. I also was told that when you use nasal pillows you should turn up the humidifier, but obviously that is not an option for me. I will try it set to off with water in the chamber. If I'm doing a saline sinus rinse tomorrow, then I'll know that this won't be an option for me.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:13 pm

To get the hose to dry out-get two or three hoses number them with a permanent marker and alternate hoses.

I run the hose-with it's cover-under the blankets-I tried putting it between the sheets and the blankets but then I can't hang onto it when I turn-and I quickly got used to hanging onto it when I turn.

How about a double cover-bet you could get one custom made for you.

We have a woodstove for heat and propane to cook-they aggravate my allergies. So we are building a completely separate sleeping cottage to be heated by electricity-very small and well insulated. Thinking it may still be colder out there this winter I made a superinsulated hose cover; ripstop nylon liner, thinsulate, a heat reflective layer, then fleece on the outside. Tried it one cold night last week when there was no fire going. Had the worst rainout-thought I was taking a shower. Figured out that the cover was so cold when I started the night-the heat from the humidifier was never able to warm it up. Frustrated at the day of sewing and the waste of materials but tried curling the hose (with cover) on a heating pad under the blankets-turn it on with a timer at 10 PM-when I go to bed at 11-both the hose cover and my spot in bed are warmed up. It works really well now. Plan to make one more supercover for the second hose.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:15 pm

Guess the other problem would be the tube down to the nasal pillows-does anyone ever insulate that???

NyNurse33 · Post by **NyNurse33** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:22 pm

krousseau....those were some really good ideas. I will try pre-warming up my hose. Usually its just there hanging from the machine to the loop on a hook on the wall above my bed. The room air may be too drafty or cool. Thanks.

wabmorgan · Post by **wabmorgan** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:36 pm

Don't give up.

I have the swift and the breeze. I had the worse rain out problems with the breeze but also sometimes with the swift.

I have switched back to the Active and I rarely ever have rain-out with it.

I have noticed that the colder the room is the more rain out I have. You might try taking the CPAP hose under the covers.

byront · Post by **byront** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:19 am

Melissa - Maybe I missed this but I would be interested in knowing how much water from the humidifier tank you go through on a setting of 1. If your lowest setting of 1 is somehow faulty and running to high, and each following setting is based off of the lowest setting of 1, then rainout may very well be unavoidable because the thermostat settings for the humidifier are faulty. If you are going through a large amount of water on a setting of 1, then it may indicate a faulty thermostat and I would try swapping out for another of the same model - make your DME earn some of his pay. You may be able to find out from Respironics what water temperature you are supposed to have at setting 1 and drop a thermometer in the tank to check it out (turn off 'auto shutoff' some weekend when your home and let it run for a while). On the other hand if you are going through little water and still experiencing this excessive rainout it would seem that the moisture is being pulled out of the room air do to excessive humidity. Do you have just the gray filter in or do you also have the white fine filter in? I'm not sure if that would make a difference, but adding the fine filter may help just a bit. I have exactly the same setup as you and as you know I leave mine set on 2 and have no rainout - but if I open my window all the way as I generally prefer I get rainout and have to pop it down to 1 because as you know even the slightest cooling of the hose will add to the rainout problem. I started keeping the window most of the way shut. It seems that I read a post where someone else had to return an M because of a faulty thermostat and the replacement unit worked fine. I am leaning towards a faulty thermostat, but then again I have never been to New York and have no idea as to the humidity. Another thought might be that if it is in fact due to a high humidity in the room air, and you are using the fine filter along with the gray filter, you may be able to remove the fine filter and run with the humidifier empty and off - although I'm not so sure that this would be very good for the machine. I don't have any knowledge as to how much water vapor will pass through these filters. Have you ever felt them to see if they feel damp? Just some thoughts to throw in the pot. Best of luck and keep pluggin' away. --- BT

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:19 am

Pre-warming the hose has been mentioned. For anyone who wants an almost no-cost way to warm the bed, here's your 'hint for the day'.

Take a pair of very tightly woven socks (like men's dress socks) and put one inside the other (like a liner) so it is double thick. With a funnel (or however) pour some rice into the double-thick sock, leaving enough room to tie a secure knot at the end. Microwave the rice filled sock for 1 minute. Shake it up and continue to microve it at 30 second intervals, continuing to check the temperature. For you sewers out there, a large washcloth or small hand towel folded and tightly stitched looks better. I was given one as a Christmas gift several years ago, and only resorted to the socks when I loaned it out.

For winter sleeping, I like a cool room with plenty covers, and as long as my feet are warm, I'm fine. I use one to warm the foot of my bed, and draping one around my neck when sitting around the house allows me to keep the room temperature a bit lower. Rice will hold the heat longer than most of the fillers used in the items sold at the drug store. The heating instructions above for your homemade items are similar to the instructions on those packages.

Now to the Disclaimers: Diabetics or those with sensory deficits should use extreme caution so as to not cause burns. Though I sleep with my feet directly on one, I would never recommend that to others. Heat at shortest length of time to obtain enough warmth to warm the bed. Microwaves vary, so test your item. Also, size of the socks and amount of rice and fullness desired makes a difference in heating time, as well as the sock material. As the store bought items warn, any cloth is flammable. Not a time for bypassing the safeguards of heating at intervals until you know your item's tolerance. (And you don't want cooked rice.) If using it to warm the bed for warming your cpap hose, use caution to not damage your hose by direct contact with excessive heat!!!!

Sorry for the excessive disclaimers. Just wanted to cover all bases.

Kathy

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:42 am

I've made these rice bags as gifts! You can also use field corn, it seems to stay warm longer. We use them all the time and they stay warm for hours. You can also use lentils.

Brenda

svh · Post by **svh** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:31 am

I can't really offer much help, since I'm not having much of a problem....Yes, you can run the machine with water in the tank, but the dial set to zero, and you will get a little humidification. I am now running mine on 1, and since I shut my window (which is directly next to the bed), I have had much less trouble with rainout. I still get a bit of wetness on my upper lip, which I don't like, but it's not that bad. Our house (in MA) is pretty dry, I think, with forced hot air heat, which I set to 60 at night.

I know you'll hang in there! You've worked so hard to get this far--don't give up! Good luck!

NyNurse33 · Post by **NyNurse33** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:20 am

I have one of those rice bags too and use it keep me warm at night as well. Although I haven't taken it out yet for the season, but now I will. I will check on how much water I am going through on a setting of 1. I used my swift again last night, removed the velcro that was holding the mask hose to the head gear and let it hang down across my left side of my body and then over to the machine which is on my right side. I did not have it hanging above my head to a hook on the wall above my head. I kept most of the tubing under the covers with me, although the weight of the hose did make it seem like it was pulling the mask. I will have to get a clip to keep it on my PJ's. I did have a lot less condensation. I just don't know how I can use the CL2 in the same position, b/c the connector is above your head. My goal is to be able to use the CL2, the swift is great for not letting the water go up my nose like the CL2 was doing, but for me its not quite as comfortable. On a side note, I woke up around 4:30 am, felt this really bad headache, went back to sleep and woke up about 4 hours later and still have a horrible headache. I'll have to check my numbers today.

GoofyUT · Post by **GoofyUT** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:38 am

Melissa-

I've been following your travails with concern, and I'm SO SORRY about the difficulties that you've been having and the worry that those concerns have caused you. I had a very similar course for my first 4 months, though NOT because of rain-out. I simply was not matching well with ResMed's autoset algorithm, and as soon as I switched to a REMstar Auto, I improved immediately and have been having steadily better night's sleeps since. I currently enjoy 8-9 hours a night with numbers around 0.2 consistently. (I do want to note that my failure with the ResMed algorithm were specific ONLY to me, and MANY do just fine with it!). I say all of this to encourage you that, though MANY of us have a hell of a time in the beginning, IT DOES GET BETTER, so don't lose hope! I came very close to losing hope several times, with each nigth I'd spend awake in the early morning hours, exhausted and FRUSTRATED. But, that's all behind me now, and I feel better than I EVER have in my life, now that I have a successful xPAP thing going.

I do want to tell you that, with my REMstar Auto (classic) and REMstar humidifier set to "1", I have NO rainout with an uninsulated hose, using a Swift. I keep my house quite cool in the night (around 64 degs.) and its has been very chilly here in Salt Lake for this autumn. With the Activa, I'll notice a couple of water droplets in the cushion of the mask, but not enough so that I notice or am bothered by them while I sleep. Even with the HH set to "2", I have no rainout with the Swift, but occasionally I'll wake up in the morning aware that my nose feels wet when I use the Activa. Not enough to disrupt my sleep tho. I get plenty of humidification tho, with my HH set to "1".

I've read many psotings here with regard to problems with the M series humidifier. I think that Respironics made BAD design decisions regarding the humidifier, especially with how difficult folks find it to manipulate the reservoir to get it out of its compartment, fill it, and re-insert it without sloshing water that often results in damaging the machine itself. And similarly, I've heard FEW complaints about the HH on the REMstar "classic" machines, except for the base seal leaking occasionally (which I avoid by NOT EVER removing the reservoir from the HH).

So, to set your mind at ease, you might want to talk with your DME about trilaing a REMstar Auto "classic" version, just to see if its any better with regard to your rainout probs. Now, I know that THE LAST thing that you want to do is to tangle with your DME again. But what you're going through isn't what you deserve to have happen. And, its YOUR health AND your money paying them. So, if you're so inclined, call 'em, tell 'em that the M series Auto ain't making it because of the rainout problems, and DEMAND a trial of the older, PROVEN, "classic" REMstar.

Just a thought.

Chuck

byront · Post by **byront** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:44 am

Melissa - are you taping or doing something about mouth breathing? When I am deep asleep I mouth breath, and if I don't tape I wake up with a headache. If I don't tape I will get the headache even from a short nap, but it is much worse from a full nights sleep. There is no therapy if you are mouth breathing, and it's something you can be totally unaware of. --- BT

bairdbeth · Post by **bairdbeth** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:56 am

After reading of your problems, I crossed the CL2 off my list when I went to the DME last Thursday. I have had rainout since my first night. I broke down and ordered the Aussie hose. It definetly helped! I got 1 drop of condensation when I woke up the first morning and none the next! Last night I forgot to plug it in and I poured a bunch of water out of the hose and mask this morning. I know that the Aussie is expensive, but it has worked for me (I had rainout in a room that was 78 degrees with HH on 1!) When you can swing it, it would probably help you if you ordered one.

Not sure what to do

just a thought

Bed Warmer

Humidity-Rainout