Tips for Mouth-breathers? I'm having some issues.

[zoocrewphoto]

Response to the OP about a FFM: I use a full face mask and was a horrible snorer before cpap. Sometimes my mouth is open with the mask, but I don't snore AT ALL. So, I don't think you need to be concerned about a return to snoring with a FFM.

Same here. With good settings, the snoring will be prevented, even if your mouth is open. My sister used to complain about sharing a hotel room. She was amazed at how quiet I am with my cpap.

[CapnLoki]

I've not tried a full mask yet. All mine have been nasal masks. I'm a little concerned as I wasa horrible snorer before CPAP, especially laying on my back. CPAP and keeping my mouth shut seems to have eliminated that but I wonder if it'll be an issue again with a full mask if my mouth is open.

I'm a mouth breather and former heavy snorer. With a full face mask (Quattro Air - actually fairly small) I don't snore a bit, and my AHI is typically 0.3. I trained myself to always sleep on my side - this was the final step in stabilizing my breathing.

I appreciate that some folks have trouble tolerating a FFM, but aside from that, I don't understand why people go so such lengths to avoid them.

[Madalot]

Piping in on this one....

I've used a FFM from the beginning (2010) and my snoring has stopped totally with it. My husband used to wake me up several times a night because I was bothering him, but no more!

[Goofproof]

Piping in on this one....

I've used a FFM from the beginning (2010) and my snoring has stopped totally with it. My husband used to wake me up several times a night because I was bothering him, but no more!

And that's how you control mouth leaking, so you can build up enough pressure to keep your airway open. Jim Sleep Apnea and Snoing under control.

[kteague]

I co-sign prior suggestions - just have to figure out what works for you. I've used most of the techniques mentioned at some point until my mouth breathing finally stopped. The key for me was learning how to get a good suction seal by placing my tongue against the roof of my mouth pushed up against the back of my top teeth. I still try to keep my face/head flat side sleeping on a flat firm pillow as having the top of the head even a couple inches higher than the chin gives gravity an advantage. Still roll up the covers and tuck under the chin sometimes, but can even back sleep without losing the seal. Took some time of training - but you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[Rumbert]

Do you realize the (new) OP has not come back for answers? Any idea why that might be? Yes xxxxxy did his usual ghastly thing, but it might have been ignored by the OP and his question answered, but you have decided (Tas) to fight with him in the midst of the OP's first post in the forum, and I'm sure by doing so drove him (or is it a her?) away for good. Don't you have anything smarter to do? XXX can be forgiven for being a real problem child, but what's your excuse?

Julie, I'm new here and I feel exactly the way you describe. (I registered in 2012 but only started reading and posting a lot recently.) I'm debating with myself whether to keep posting here because of the rudeness and animosity in this forum.

I think it's quite likely that I'm going to drift away from this forum in the next few days because I don't enjoy listening to people insult each other.

What bothers me most is that a bunch of sane, mature, intelligent people are ganging up on somebody who obviously has problems.

I agree with you that xyz can't help it. I don't want to try to categorize him because If I do it will sound like I'm insulting him, which will only add to the problem, but surely the sane mature intelligent people here who are lowering themselves to his verbal level can see that he can't help it.

It serves nobody, absolutely nobody, to insult him. It only drives newcomers away from this forum.

Correct his mistakes, yes, certainly, but do it in a polite way. Even if he's rude, be polite. Be kind to him. Find it in your heart to be compassionate to somebody with problems.

If we met him in real life, I think most of us would feel sympathy for him. It would never occur to us to insult him.

There are people on the Internet with serious problems. They aren't all like us.

[Rumbert]

I co-sign prior suggestions - just have to figure out what works for you. I've used most of the techniques mentioned at some point until my mouth breathing finally stopped. The key for me was learning how to get a good suction seal by placing my tongue against the roof of my mouth pushed up against the back of my top teeth. I still try to keep my face/head flat side sleeping on a flat firm pillow as having the top of the head even a couple inches higher than the chin gives gravity an advantage. Still roll up the covers and tuck under the chin sometimes, but can even back sleep without losing the seal. Took some time of training - but you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Do you happen to know of any articles or videos that describe the tongue-suction seal well? I'm curious because I'm still investigating the new trick my body has learned of creating a seal in a different way at the far back of the throat, behind the tongue, and I've become very interested in teaching people these things.

I'm also wondering if anybody has written about or taught this other kind of seal.

[Julie]

It strikes me that creating a seal back in your throat is counterproductive to Cpap in a big way - the whole point of Cpap is to open your throat, not create a closing just before air gets to it. Tongue sealing is about keeping your tongue tip up against your front teeth all night... somehow making it possible with practice and therefore keeping Cpap air from escaping.

[Rumbert]

It strikes me that creating a seal back in your throat is counterproductive to Cpap in a big way - the whole point of Cpap is to open your throat, not create a closing just before air gets to it. Tongue sealing is about keeping your tongue tip up against your front teeth all night... somehow making it possible with practice and therefore keeping Cpap air from escaping.

I don't want to hijack this thread but as far as I can tell, this strange new back-of-the-mouth seal doesn't impair air flow between the nose and lungs. If anything, I think it helps. There is a big problem with this new seal, but it's not air flow. It's mouth dryness. I wrote more about it in this other thread:

Odd problem

[Julie]

Mouth dryness is from breathing with your mouth open... again a vote for the tonue/teeth sealing technique.

[Rumbert]

Mouth dryness is from breathing with your mouth open...

This dryness is happening even when my mouth is closed. I know that for sure because I tested with my mouth taped. I was surprised by this too because like you, I thought that dryness only happens because of moving air. But it turns out that dryness can also happen for another reason. This peculiar dryness is the "odd problem" in the title of the other thread.

...again a vote for the tongue/teeth sealing technique.

For five years my body used the seal you're voting for, but now it has fallen in love with the new seal. The choice is involuntary. My body chose for me. It has five years' experience with the one you like, and it has presumably made an informed choice.

The new seal is better, or will be better when I solve the dryness problem, because I no longer need tape or chin straps. It no longer matters if my mouth is open or closed. In fact -- this amazed me -- I tested while I was awake, and I can drink coffee perfectly easily while using my cpap machine and nasal pillows, without air escaping from my mouth. My body has taught itself a very interesting trick.

[klm49]

Piping in on this one....

I've used a FFM from the beginning (2010) and my snoring has stopped totally with it. My husband used to wake me up several times a night because I was bothering him, but no more!

And that's how you control mouth leaking, so you can build up enough pressure to keep your airway open. Jim Sleep Apnea and Snoing under control.

FWIW, After a year of CPAP I was forced to seek a new Sleep Dr. She sent me in for a new titration. The technician said she had to get my pressure up to 18 to stop the snoring which I thought was unusual. The new settings seem to have totally eliminated the snoring and my AHI's are continually low. With help from this board I had gotten my pressures up to 14 - 17 which gave me good numbers but still snoring, My new numbers are 17-20 and machine never goes over 18.5 and usually is lower.

[MaxINTJ]

I appreciate that some folks have trouble tolerating a FFM, but aside from that, I don't understand why people go so such lengths to avoid them.

For me, they are too large and protrude too far out in front since they all seem to have the hose attachment in a stupid place - unlike the Dreamwear nasal mask.

I tried one, and unless you're a back sleeper, or a side sleeper with a special pillow, the mask gets moved around and leaks. If they would make one with a top mount hose it would be an improvement. I don't know if it would work for me - it would depend on the overall size.

[Pugsy]

Some of us choose to avoid FFM simply because we don't want all that stuff on our face or maybe the strap placement causes pain in the cervical spine area ( and no, the strap isn't too tight ).

"Want" or "don't want" is a good enough reason to go to whatever lengths a person is willing to go to to make a mask work.

[ChicagoGranny]

I've not tried a full mask yet. All mine have been nasal masks. I'm a little concerned as I wasa horrible snorer before CPAP, especially laying on my back. CPAP and keeping my mouth shut seems to have eliminated that but I wonder if it'll be an issue again with a full mask if my mouth is open.

You set your pressure so that snoring is eliminated no matter what the mouth is doing. Forum members can help with optimizing your machine settings. Backsleeping is not a problem once the machine settings are optimized.