Simple test to see if you can use a nose-only mask

[Gasper62]

A good example of apnea-related oxygen deprivation causing brain impairment or...... actual brain death.

[palerider]

A good example of apnea-related oxygen deprivation causing brain impairment or...... actual brain death.

in the case of the zombie apocalypse, D.H. certainly doesn't have anything to worry about from any shambling hoards looking for BRAAAIINNNNNSSSSS.

[chunkyfrog]

What kind of person starts having cocktails at 9 a.m.?
D.H. has GOT to be DRUNK!

[Janknitz]

Here's what I suggest as a test for using a nasal mask:

1. Place your tongue on the roof of your mouth, on the ridge behind your front teeth.
2. Open your mouth but leave your tongue in the position.
3. Pinch your nose shut.

If you can breathe in and out through your mouth even with your tongue in that position, then you aren't making a good seal and may be a mouth breather. Nasal pillows and nasal masks are probably not going to work (but always still worth a try).

[palerider]

for me, my tongue has nothing to do with it... with my nasal mask on, at pressure (13) I can open my mouth and stick my tongue out.

[chunkyfrog]

I wear a nose only mask because I HAVE NO CHOICE.
99% of the full face masks do not fit my beautiful but non-standard face.

[Janknitz]

for me, my tongue has nothing to do with it... with my nasal mask on, at pressure (13) I can open my mouth and stick my tongue out.

I can, too, but I don't know another way to describe, online, how to make that seal to test it. If people cannot do it with tongue positioning, then it's probably going to be very difficult.

When I was a kid I loved to "swim" which mostly meant playing around in the water. We'd have "underwater tea parties" where we would pretend to drink tea and chat--making funny sounds under the water as we "talked". In order to do that, you have to be able to seal off the airway. But adults seem to forget how to do that, and the tongue positioning helps you feel what should be happening.

[palerider]

for me, my tongue has nothing to do with it... with my nasal mask on, at pressure (13) I can open my mouth and stick my tongue out.

I can, too, but I don't know another way to describe, online, how to make that seal to test it. If people cannot do it with tongue positioning, then it's probably going to be very difficult.

When I was a kid I loved to "swim" which mostly meant playing around in the water. We'd have "underwater tea parties" where we would pretend to drink tea and chat--making funny sounds under the water as we "talked". In order to do that, you have to be able to seal off the airway. But adults seem to forget how to do that, and the tongue positioning helps you feel what should be happening.

I really don't know how to describe it either, since it's all happening in the back of my throat, and I can't *feel* anything moving, but I can "think" it so air goes in and out my mouth, or my nose... or both.

I like to say that it's using the same stuff that lets 'em blow up a balloon without pinching their nose shut... just in reverse it's just something one does.

[Jay Aitchsee]

We aren't used to using the muscles that control the velopharyngeal sphincter when we sleep. But we are we when we speak. Just start to make a "K" sound and you will put those muscles into play. I'm guessing we're not "used" to doing it when we sleep because it is a little unnatural to have the ambient nasal pressure greater than that of the mouth, at least IMHO.

velopharyngeal images

[Midnight Strangler]

If it does, then the nasal path is open and it's possible to use a nose only mask. Conversely, if there's no flow out of the mouth and/or there is sinus pain from the pressure, then you probably do need a full-face mask.

Do you have that backwards? In the beginning days, my wife would wake me up telling me that air was zooming out my mouth. I switched to a FFM, and the problem ended. My FFM has suited me well for many years.

[rkl122]

.........Just start to make a "K" sound and you will put those muscles into play. ........

Now if instead of trying to vocalize a K, you force the air into the nasal passage - sorta like a micro snore - you get what I call the Norman Fell snort. The late Norman Fell was the actor in "The Graduate" who played the paranoid rooming house manager Dustin Hoffman encountered when he went to Berkeley looking for Katharine Ross. Just by incorporating this nasal tick, Fell created an indelible character (IMHO). I related to it, because I did it too. Always have (which may account for my OSA today.) I can't find a clip of that scene, but here's my own version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/whkz8sxtudalf ... t.m4a?dl=0. Edit: Same muscles, is my point.
-Ron

[Janknitz]

for me, my tongue has nothing to do with it... with my nasal mask on, at pressure (13) I can open my mouth and stick my tongue out.

I can, too, but I don't know another way to describe, online, how to make that seal to test it. If people cannot do it with tongue positioning, then it's probably going to be very difficult.

When I was a kid I loved to "swim" which mostly meant playing around in the water. We'd have "underwater tea parties" where we would pretend to drink tea and chat--making funny sounds under the water as we "talked". In order to do that, you have to be able to seal off the airway. But adults seem to forget how to do that, and the tongue positioning helps you feel what should be happening.

I really don't know how to describe it either, since it's all happening in the back of my throat, and I can't *feel* anything moving, but I can "think" it so air goes in and out my mouth, or my nose... or both.

I like to say that it's using the same stuff that lets 'em blow up a balloon without pinching their nose shut... just in reverse it's just something one does.

Yeah, so try my test. I can't move air in and out with my tongue in that position and the nose pinched off. It shows people exactly how that seal feels in the back of the throat. But some people cannot seal it off.

[palerider]

for me, my tongue has nothing to do with it... with my nasal mask on, at pressure (13) I can open my mouth and stick my tongue out.

I can, too, but I don't know another way to describe, online, how to make that seal to test it. If people cannot do it with tongue positioning, then it's probably going to be very difficult.

When I was a kid I loved to "swim" which mostly meant playing around in the water. We'd have "underwater tea parties" where we would pretend to drink tea and chat--making funny sounds under the water as we "talked". In order to do that, you have to be able to seal off the airway. But adults seem to forget how to do that, and the tongue positioning helps you feel what should be happening.

I really don't know how to describe it either, since it's all happening in the back of my throat, and I can't *feel* anything moving, but I can "think" it so air goes in and out my mouth, or my nose... or both.

I like to say that it's using the same stuff that lets 'em blow up a balloon without pinching their nose shut... just in reverse it's just something one does.

Yeah, so try my test. I can't move air in and out with my tongue in that position and the nose pinched off. It shows people exactly how that seal feels in the back of the throat. But some people cannot seal it off.

I can still get some air around my tongue when doing that... it's trying to seal with the tongue, not the velum (soft palate) (thanks to Jay for link to pics of these things. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113575&view=unread#p1096773

[Jay Aitchsee]

I thought you all might enjoy this excerpt from a 2010 patent application. The application was for a method to detect mouth leaks while using a nasal mask and in their presence reduce the applied CPAP pressure. Apparently, the Full Face Mask is a much simpler solution as I haven't seen the patented method in general use. See the full details here.

In some cases, pressurized air flows through the velopharyngeal sphincter (i.e. between the lateral pharyngeal walls and the soft palate) into the oral cavity and then out through the lips, resulting in a mouth leak. When a mouth leak occurs, pressurized air does not reach the lungs and does not contribute to ventilation, thereby rendering the treatment less effective or ineffective. In addition, because of the one-way airflow through the nasal passages, mouth leaks tend to dry the mucosal surfaces resulting in nasal congestion after only several hours of use. In some applications, the CPAP system will apply a higher pressure through the nose mask when a mouth or mask leak is detected to compensate for the leak which only exacerbates the problem. In many cases, the side effects are often so severe that the patient is no longer able to tolerate treatment.

[Janknitz]

Except in real life a FF mask is very hard to adjust so there are no leaks. I've been using the Quattro for a couple of weeks because of nasal congestion and I get tgat read frowning leaky face every morning no matter what I do. Last night I was able to use my DreamWear again and no frowny leaky face, no sore nose, slept SO much better!