USING CPAP WITH NO HUMIDIFIER NOW

[Goofproof]

Keep checking with your DME Provider, you never know when they will perfect that brain transplant. Jim

So far they are still looking for one.

[OkyDoky]

I was required to have a sleep test for work. I always slept soundly on my stomach and even during my test I slept on my stomach because I knew I didn't have SA. Well, I don't know what symptoms you are thinking about but many of the things CPAP has improved for me I also didn't connect them to SA. I would wake up in the morning very weak and was tired just getting dressed. Well, I was getting older. I would have night time reflux, up to the bathroom at least once, and my heart would beat irregular when I tried to go to sleep. I thought I was a night owl because I would stay up until 2 - 3 AM until I was exhausted. None of these I connected to SA.

The problems with symptoms is sometimes the damage is done before we have them. My mother had CHF, stroke, A-Fib, diabetes and definitely snored but we never connected the dots.

I no longer have the problems I mentioned above, I've cut my diabetes medicine in half, and my blood pressure is stable.
So if you have Sleep Apnea the damage will be done and the symptoms will occur. The question is will you get treatment while you can prevent damage.

[treydawgmt]

And I don't know who supplies your DME, and who your insurance is, but I know in my case, I was told to try the first mask I got for a few nights, if I didn't like it within 2 weeks, insurance and the doctor would allow me to change and keep doing that until I found a mask I liked, all at the same cost if I had done it just once. It only took me two masks to find one that worked, but I'm sure I could have tried multiple more.

[PoolQ]

DeeCPAP what you say sound logical, but alas it is not. I doubt that anything I say will change your way of thinking, but perhaps someone new to CPAP will read it and not follow what you are suggesting.
The gear has always been problematic AND I didn't feel too much difference in the way I felt after starting the CPAP
I'm in the population who's BLOOD OXYGEN levels remain within normal limits when I took the sleep study.

Medicine is not a light switch. Some things take time and just because it does not happen right away does not mean it does not work.

If the dangers of going without a mask was that serious for ALL cpap users, masks would be fitted immediately until they worked for the patient, not every six months. Doctors right now don't wait to give antibiotics for infections because they KNOW the dangers

This is just plain faulty logic. Infections get serious quickly. Sleep Apnea does damage over time, but you have no way of knowing how close to serious you are.

Sleep apnea researchers lumps all sleep apnea the same regardless of blood oxygen levels.

Not true. I don't have supplemental oxygen and some do. Doctors do deal with low O2 differently than someone not sleeping well, or having obstructive apneas, or central apneas, or mixed apneas.

Medical research HAS been wrong in the past

Well of course there have been cases of this, but there are many, many more when medical research has been correct! so using this as a reason to not do what a doctor recommends is faulty logic and plain dangerous.

Life these days is anxiety provoking enough without having to worry about sleeping, at least for me

well of course this is your choice. denial tends to not yield good results in very many situations

If I become more symptomatic then I'll go back on it sooner

good one, Let it go until it gets more of a problem before you treat it. You going to do that with heart problems? Cancer problems? Is this what you consider a good approach to medical issues. Good luck with that.

It's my own research on myself

Research without understanding how to conduct valid research trials has no value to anyone and again can be dangerous. If you chose to not do something that an educated person suggests, that is your business, but don't call it research and think you are doing something good or noble.

I hope this is emotionally mature enough for you and that you are also emotionally mature enough to consider it.

[DeeCPAP]

PoolQ (and others), your logic is exceptional and I thank you for it -- I'm sure it took a lot of time to dissect my comments and type out answers. MUCH appreciated!

<snip>
Medicine is not a light switch. Some things take time and just because it does not happen right away does not mean it does not work.

If the dangers of going without a mask was that serious for ALL cpap users, masks would be fitted immediately until they worked for the patient, not every six months. Doctors right now don't wait to give antibiotics for infections because they KNOW the dangers

This is just plain faulty logic. Infections get serious quickly. Sleep Apnea does damage over time, but you have no way of knowing how close to serious you are.

[Sleepysuz]

A dear friend had to get a pacemaker at 50. He didn't know he had apnea until his heart was irreversibly damaged.
I didn't realize that people have to make night time trips to the bathroom because their heart racing has a chemical effect on the bladder. It's like a hormonal alarm system I had 2 trips a night which caused me to get a sleep study and find out I had apnea. When people quit using their Cpaps I worry about them!

[kteague]

I came to this thread to comment about the humidifier. Guess that's a moot point.

Don't think I have much new to add, just some reinforcement...
The tongue is but one possible culprit. Add lax tissues or swelling to the list.
In one of my studies my events were severe even on my side.
Sleep stages in disarray from events can be damaging even with ok oxygen.
Stress hormones every few minutes are not good for the body.
When is the time to act? After the first small brain infarct? The second? For me help didn't come till after several.

It's pretty normal to try to rationalize, justify, explain away - and sometimes we may actually be right. Make decisions with knowledge, not excuses. If you really think you may not need CPAP, get another sleep study, then scour the details of the report like your life depends on it. Don't think or guess with this stuff. You don't want to get like I did - old with failing health before your time, put out to pasture long before retirement age, dependent on family when it became unsafe to drive or cook, living most hours of each day sitting in a chair trying to stay awake for more than a few minutes. Sorry if I sound dramatic, but hey, I was young and strong and smart so I was able to compensate well for many years. Till I couldn't. An ounce of prevention really is worth a pound of cure. Figure out what you need to do to help yourself and do it. Or don't. But I agree that your rationale thusfar in not in your best interest.

[DeeCPAP]

.
.
Thanks, Kteague. Your comments were very much appreciated and said very respectfully!
I used this website a while back and it had a nice group of people -- helpful without the nastiness.
Maybe their CPAP machines were working better than some of the grouchy folks lately.

Without good sleep I can't concentrate and my recall is awful. It's hell !!

Again, thanks!

I came to this thread to comment about the humidifier. Guess that's a moot point.

Don't think I have much new to add, just some reinforcement...
The tongue is but one possible culprit. Add lax tissues or swelling to the list.
In one of my studies my events were severe even on my side.
Sleep stages in disarray from events can be damaging even with ok oxygen.
Stress hormones every few minutes are not good for the body.
When is the time to act? After the first small brain infarct? The second? For me help didn't come till after several.

It's pretty normal to try to rationalize, justify, explain away - and sometimes we may actually be right. Make decisions with knowledge, not excuses. If you really think you may not need CPAP, get another sleep study, then scour the details of the report like your life depends on it. Don't think or guess with this stuff. You don't want to get like I did - old with failing health before your time, put out to pasture long before retirement age, dependent on family when it became unsafe to drive or cook, living most hours of each day sitting in a chair trying to stay awake for more than a few minutes. Sorry if I sound dramatic, but hey, I was young and strong and smart so I was able to compensate well for many years. Till I couldn't. An ounce of prevention really is worth a pound of cure. Figure out what you need to do to help yourself and do it. Or don't. But I agree that your rationale thusfar in not in your best interest.

[palerider]

Maybe their CPAP machines were working better than some of the grouchy folks lately.

Without good sleep I can't concentrate and my recall is awful. It's hell !!

ah, and the lashing out begins.

if it were me, and I was so desperate for sleep, I'd disconnect the humidifier and turn up the room heat a notch or two, maybe pull the hose under the covers with me...

might not be perfect sleep, but it'd be better than nothing.

[49er]

I understand where you are coming from. Because pap therapy has greatly worsened my sleep during a 4 year struggle, I am looking into surgical alternatives. I would love to ditch the machine but it is clear that when I sleep without it, my body protests big time with an increasing heart rate and elevated blood pressure.

By the way, my O2 levels didn't substantially decrease during my last two sleep studies. And when they did, they only stayed down very briefly. So really, thinking normal O2 levels are an indication of zero apneas/hypopneas is a false sense of security.

Regarding the dangers of going without a mask, you may be fine initially but it catches up to you. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

Best of luck.

49er

Thanks everyone. I'm going to play devil's advocate in this message (i.e. these are the arguments I have with myself).

I decided not to use the CPAP at all for now. The gear has always been problematic AND I didn't feel too much difference in the way I felt after starting the CPAP. I'm in the population who's BLOOD OXYGEN levels remain within normal limits when I took the sleep study.

If there IS a difference, I'll wait until until I can get a different mask that works for me. If the dangers of going without a mask was that serious for ALL cpap users, masks would be fitted immediately until they worked for the patient, not every six months. Doctors right now don't wait to give antibiotics for infections because they KNOW the dangers.

Sleep apnea researchers lumps all sleep apnea the same regardless of blood oxygen levels. That's a research error. More refined measures are needed. Medical research HAS been wrong in the past. Example, a couple of decades ago older women were URGED to take hormones as preventive measures against heart disease and other horrible illnesses, then they retracted it after realizing it causes more health problems than it helps. The same happened with people with back pain and xrays where abnormalities were found in the spine, but later, people with no pain were also found to have similar abnormalities of the spine.

Life these days is anxiety provoking enough without having to worry about sleeping, at least for me. If I become more symptomatic then I'll go back on it sooner. It's my own research on myself -- the proof is in the pudding.

[DeeCPAP]

Thanks 49'er. Much of the time I HATE the CPAP but use it anyway. I've often wished I had the "guts" or naivety to do without it like a couple of women I know, but I'm not that dumb to go against a plethora of medical evidence. I think the new headgear I just got might help me hate it less. It doesn't push air up my nose like the pillows do and breathing feels more natural, at least for now.

I knew someone who had severe apneas who lived to his mid 80's without treatment who was healthy until he was diagnosed with cancer and passed a few months later. There's a wee voice in the back of my mind that whispers: apnea may be more prevalent in the population and may not cause irreparable harm as we're being told, but I'm not yet ready to forego treatment until it's validated. I will kick myself at that time and not beforehand.

Seriously, thanks very much!

I understand where you are coming from. Because pap therapy has greatly worsened my sleep during a 4 year struggle, I am looking into surgical alternatives. I would love to ditch the machine but it is clear that when I sleep without it, my body protests big time with an increasing heart rate and elevated blood pressure.

By the way, my O2 levels didn't substantially decrease during my last two sleep studies. And when they did, they only stayed down very briefly. So really, thinking normal O2 levels are an indication of zero apneas/hypopneas is a false sense of security.

Regarding the dangers of going without a mask, you may be fine initially but it catches up to you. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

Best of luck.

49er

Thanks everyone. I'm going to play devil's advocate in this message (i.e. these are the arguments I have with myself).

I decided not to use the CPAP at all for now. The gear has always been problematic AND I didn't feel too much difference in the way I felt after starting the CPAP. I'm in the population who's BLOOD OXYGEN levels remain within normal limits when I took the sleep study.

If there IS a difference, I'll wait until until I can get a different mask that works for me. If the dangers of going without a mask was that serious for ALL cpap users, masks would be fitted immediately until they worked for the patient, not every six months. Doctors right now don't wait to give antibiotics for infections because they KNOW the dangers.

Sleep apnea researchers lumps all sleep apnea the same regardless of blood oxygen levels. That's a research error. More refined measures are needed. Medical research HAS been wrong in the past. Example, a couple of decades ago older women were URGED to take hormones as preventive measures against heart disease and other horrible illnesses, then they retracted it after realizing it causes more health problems than it helps. The same happened with people with back pain and xrays where abnormalities were found in the spine, but later, people with no pain were also found to have similar abnormalities of the spine.

Life these days is anxiety provoking enough without having to worry about sleeping, at least for me. If I become more symptomatic then I'll go back on it sooner. It's my own research on myself -- the proof is in the pudding.

[49er]

You're very welcome. Good luck with your therapy

Thanks 49'er. Much of the time I HATE the CPAP but use it anyway. I've often wished I had the "guts" or naivety to do without it like a couple of women I know, but I'm not that dumb to go against a plethora of medical evidence. I think the new headgear I just got might help me hate it less. It doesn't push air up my nose like the pillows do and breathing feels more natural, at least for now.

I knew someone who had severe apneas who lived to his mid 80's without treatment who was healthy until he was diagnosed with cancer and passed a few months later. There's a wee voice in the back of my mind that whispers: apnea may be more prevalent in the population and may not cause irreparable harm as we're being told, but I'm not yet ready to forego treatment until it's validated. I will kick myself at that time and not beforehand.

Seriously, thanks very much!

I understand where you are coming from. Because pap therapy has greatly worsened my sleep during a 4 year struggle, I am looking into surgical alternatives. I would love to ditch the machine but it is clear that when I sleep without it, my body protests big time with an increasing heart rate and elevated blood pressure.

By the way, my O2 levels didn't substantially decrease during my last two sleep studies. And when they did, they only stayed down very briefly. So really, thinking normal O2 levels are an indication of zero apneas/hypopneas is a false sense of security.

Regarding the dangers of going without a mask, you may be fine initially but it catches up to you. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

Best of luck.

49er

Thanks everyone. I'm going to play devil's advocate in this message (i.e. these are the arguments I have with myself).

I decided not to use the CPAP at all for now. The gear has always been problematic AND I didn't feel too much difference in the way I felt after starting the CPAP. I'm in the population who's BLOOD OXYGEN levels remain within normal limits when I took the sleep study.

If there IS a difference, I'll wait until until I can get a different mask that works for me. If the dangers of going without a mask was that serious for ALL cpap users, masks would be fitted immediately until they worked for the patient, not every six months. Doctors right now don't wait to give antibiotics for infections because they KNOW the dangers.

Sleep apnea researchers lumps all sleep apnea the same regardless of blood oxygen levels. That's a research error. More refined measures are needed. Medical research HAS been wrong in the past. Example, a couple of decades ago older women were URGED to take hormones as preventive measures against heart disease and other horrible illnesses, then they retracted it after realizing it causes more health problems than it helps. The same happened with people with back pain and xrays where abnormalities were found in the spine, but later, people with no pain were also found to have similar abnormalities of the spine.

Life these days is anxiety provoking enough without having to worry about sleeping, at least for me. If I become more symptomatic then I'll go back on it sooner. It's my own research on myself -- the proof is in the pudding.