Can we learn to keep the mouth closed?

[sweetsnore]

Any success for mouth breathers changing their habit after using a chin support for awhile? I would so like to switch to the nose pillow like my husband uses.

[ButtermilkBuoy]

Nope. Tried everything. Now, very happy with my FFM. Some people's mouths just gonna open.

[musculus]

maybe check for nasal congestion first..

I have nasal congestion that become way worse during REM sleep. So I changed to full face mask and it made a difference over the nasal pillow.

[ButtermilkBuoy]

nasal congestion that become way worse during REM sleep

That's the first time I've heard that one.

Your muscles are at their maximum relaxation during REM. This includes the muscles in the airway, so typically, OSA is at its worse during REM. That's probably what is happening instead of congestion.

[Pugsy]

It depends on why you are mouth breathing. If you are mouth breathing out of habit then yes you can break the habit. If you are mouth breathing simply because you can't move enough air to be comfortable through only your nose for some reason (that you can't fix) then it's unlikely that you could make the switch.
So the first step is to figure out why the mouth breathing.

[Wulfman...]

Any success for mouth breathers changing their habit after using a chin support for awhile? I would so like to switch to the nose pillow like my husband uses.

Along the lines of what Pugsy said, you need to evaluate WHY you're a mouth-breather.
Could be enlarged turbinates or deviated septum or varying degrees of allergies.
I was a mouth-breather all of my life (probably for some of those reasons) and when I started this therapy I selected a full face mask. In the beginning, I discovered I didn't like heated humidity and turned it off permanently. Over the first year, I figured out how to do periodic and nightly nasal cleansing so I could at least breathe through my nose. I also trained my tongue to stay to the roof of my mouth all night. All that, combined with the cool "passover" humidity helped keep my nasal passages open to be able to breathe through my nose on a regular basis for the first time in my life. I've never used anything other than a full face mask and am slightly curious as to why you'd want to use a nasal one. I never could imagine trying to sleep with those things shoved up my nostrils all night long. And, I figured by the time I took all the precautions to keep my mouth shut, I'd feel more claustrophobic than any full face mask could make me feel.


Den

.

[sweetsnore]

Well, the reason I'd prefer not to use the full face is because of face comfort as I sleep on my side. The pressure from my pillow tends to push the mask against the side of my lips and against my eyebrow.

I am trying a brand new Resmed hybrid mask that takes care of that eyebrow pressure, but it is a little leaky, so not sure it will be adequate yet.

I have insomnia terribly, and as you can imagine, this contraption doesn't help.

[Julie]

PapPillow.com

[Wulfman...]

Well, the reason I'd prefer not to use the full face is because of face comfort as I sleep on my side. The pressure from my pillow tends to push the mask against the side of my lips and against my eyebrow.

I am trying a brand new Resmed hybrid mask that takes care of that eyebrow pressure, but it is a little leaky, so not sure it will be adequate yet.

I have insomnia terribly, and as you can imagine, this contraption doesn't help.

I read your other post about pillows and am concluding that you're using a standard fiberfill pillow (or something similar). If so, those pillows are terrible for sleep with this therapy. Years before I started CPAP use, I started using a Chiroflow water-based pillow which keeps my head from sinking into it. The height can be adjusted for spinal position and for softness. I'm a confirmed side-sleeper and my head doesn't sink too far into the pillow, but just enough to be comfortable and shape-able. Anyway, the Chiroflow worked just fine for me after I started CPAP and I've continued to use it.

Over the years, I've occasionally tried to go back to using a fiberfill pillow and the results were disastrous for leaks and too uncomfortable.
I do have a foam pillow I recently used for a couple of months (as an experiment) and that didn't work too bad, but soon went back to my Chiroflow.


Den

.

[musculus]

nasal congestion that become way worse during REM sleep

That's the first time I've heard that one.

Your muscles are at their maximum relaxation during REM. This includes the muscles in the airway, so typically, OSA is at its worse during REM. That's probably what is happening instead of congestion.

Abstract

Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg. 2008 Nov;139(5):619-23. doi: 10.1016/j.otohns.2008.08.017.

REM-associated nasal obstruction: a study with acoustic rhinometry during sleep.

Morris LG1, Burschtin O, Setlur J, Bommelje CC, Lee KC, Jacobs JB, Lebowitz RA.

Author information

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

Obstructive sleep apnea events are more common in REM sleep, although there is no relationship between sleep phase and pharyngeal airway status. We studied the patency of the nasal airway during REM and non-REM sleep with the use of acoustic rhinometry.

METHODS:

Serial acoustic rhinometric assessment of nasal cross-sectional area was performed in 10 subjects, before sleep and during REM and non-REM sleep. All measurements were standardized to a decongested baseline with mean congestion factor (MCF).

RESULTS:

MCF in the seated position was 10.6% (+/-3.7) and increased with supine positioning to 16.2% (+/-2.3). In REM sleep, MCF was highest, at 22.3% (+/-1.7). In non-REM sleep, MCF was lowest, at 2.3% (+/-3.1). All interstage comparisons were statistically significant on repeated measures ANOVA (P < 0.05).

CONCLUSION:

REM sleep is characterized by significant nasal congestion; non-REM sleep, by profound decongestion. This phenomenon may be attributable to REM-dependent variation in cerebral blood flow that affects nasal congestion via the internal carotid system. REM-induced nasal congestion, an indirect effect of augmented cerebral perfusion, may contribute to the higher frequency of obstructive events in REM sleep.



Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18984253

[rested gal]

For over ten years I've been using tape over my mouth to prevent my mouth-breathing during sleep. That's the only way I've been able to use the nasal pillows mask I prefer.

Here's a link with a lot of topics about creative ways to prevent mouth breathing while sleeping:

viewtopic.php?t=8011

[Wulfman...]

For over ten years I've been using tape over my mouth to prevent my mouth-breathing during sleep. That's the only way I've been able to use the nasal pillows mask I prefer.

Here's a link with a lot of topics about creative ways to prevent mouth breathing while sleeping:

viewtopic.php?t=8011

I had a feeling you were still lurking.......

Good to see you post again........and happy (belated) 11th forum anniversary.

Best wishes.

Den

.

[ChicagoGranny]

why you'd want to use a nasal one. I never could imagine trying to sleep with those things shoved up my nostrils all night long.

Nasal pillows aren't inserted into the nostrils. They have a flange that seals on the outside of the nares.

[Wulfman...]

why you'd want to use a nasal one. I never could imagine trying to sleep with those things shoved up my nostrils all night long.

Nasal pillows aren't inserted into the nostrils. They have a flange that seals on the outside of the nares.

After looking at the various pillows over the years, the various "flanges" that they use would still be inserted in the nostrils to align the pillows in various ways. I would REALLY find that to be "annoying" and disturbing to my sleep. I wouldn't like something touching my nose in any way. For me, it ain't gonna happen!!!

For illustration purposes, I selected a couple from the users on this page.







Den

.

[englandsf]

I failed to get off the FFM until I discovered nasal rinsing AND learned to use very little humility to dry out my nose and improve air flow. Now I'm fine on my P10 every night.