The lipid pneumonia question

tisket · Post by **tisket** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:27 pm

So a spot in my nose is hurting, and I have read some older threads about using vaseline around the rim of your nares to prevent nasal pillow chafing. (Yes I use lanolin, no it hasn't prevented/helped the problem.) Some people felt very strongly that it was dangerous to use petroleum jelly near your respiratory system since it could result in lipid pneumonia. I recalled a couple years ago, when my dry eye problem was pretty bad, that an optometrist told me to use Refresh PM, which is something you put in your eyes at bedtime to keep them from drying out. (Many people sleep with their eyelids not quite closed.)

Refresh PM is mostly petroleum jelly and mineral oil, two things the body can't metabolize. Your eyes drain into your nasal passages obviously, much closer to your lungs than your nares are.

I asked my brother, an ophthalmologist, whether this could cause lipid pneumonia. He was very familiar with the product and said in 30 years of practice he had never had a patient have a problem with it.

If this was dangerous, how could they sell a product designed to put mineral oil and petroleum jelly in your eyes?

Really curious about this now since this is expressly what the product is for, it's not being misused in some unintended way.

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:32 pm

Because any excess in that application is swallowed.

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:38 pm

tisket wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:27 pm
If this was dangerous, how could they sell a product designed to put mineral oil and petroleum jelly in your eyes?

Looks like they put it in a box with a UPC code on it.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:45 pm

Like any danger/risk, it doesn't happen with everyone, of course. But it can nevertheless be insidious, with no symptoms until the inflammation occurs.

I like Mayo (in my mouth, not up my nose):

If you must use a lubricant, choose the water-soluble variety. Use it only sparingly and not within several hours of lying down.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/petroleum-je ... q-20057784

tisket · Post by **tisket** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:04 pm

I wonder what Mayo Clinic would say about Refresh PM.

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:10 pm

But it seems OP is using an ophthalmic preparation. IDK if the amount of excess draining into nasolacrimal duct is going to amount to much.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:13 pm

tisket wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:04 pm
I wonder what Mayo Clinic would say about Refresh PM.

Maybe that the eye bone is less connected to the lung bone?

Heck, iono. Maybe ask 'em. I've never taken a college-level anatomy course, myself. Rubicon has.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:23 pm

God protect us from alarmists!
Some of those freaks are not as afraid as they claim--
But they want others to suffer.
Nice folks.
I wish them everything they deserve.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:27 pm

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 part 349 recommends that lipids can be used as “emollients” (or “lubricants”) in ophthalmic products (eg, lanolin, light mineral oil, mineral oil, paraffin, petrolatum, white ointment, white wax, and yellow wax) indicated for “the temporary relief of burning and irritation due to dryness of the eye” or “the use as a lubricant to prevent further irritation or to relieve dryness of the eye.” -- J Ocul Pharmacol Ther. 2017 Nov 1; 33(9): 647–661.Published online 2017 Nov 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5655476/

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:48 pm

Rubicon wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:10 pm
But it seems OP is using an ophthalmic preparation. IDK if the amount of excess draining into nasolacrimal duct is going to amount to much.

I personally couldn't find any reports online of ophthalmic use causing pneumonia. Which seems significant, given the fact that I did find reports from things as odd as chronic overuse/abuse of lip balm.

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:51 pm

lazarus wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:48 pm

Rubicon wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:10 pm
But it seems OP is using an ophthalmic preparation. IDK if the amount of excess draining into nasolacrimal duct is going to amount to much.
I personally couldn't find any reports online of ophthalmic use causing pneumonia. Which seems significant, given the fact that I did find reports from things as odd as chronic overuse/abuse of lip balm.

Ah, The Great Vaseline War. Don't remind me.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:57 pm

Rubicon wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:51 pm
Ah, The Great Vaseline War. Don't remind me.

Those were the days.

I personally see no connection between the dangers of putting gobs up the nose as opposed to using a product with it being an FDA-approved ingredient for a tiny application for the surface of the eye.

But kudos to OP for being careful. Good question!

(Should we move on to something more mainstream and less controversial, like the recent backlash to the TikTok mouth-taping trends?

)

tisket · Post by **tisket** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:29 pm

I'm not sure why you consider Refresh PM to be a tiny amount. It's more than I would use to put on a nose sore, and goes in both eyes. It's like a paste.

From what I read, lipid pneumonia tends to come from swallowed lipid substances which are partially and accidentally aspirated on the way down, and not coughed up because they don't irritate the lung. So anything from drinking mineral oil to help with constipation to putting such substances on the lips or nose to help with dryness can cause it. I don't think putting it on a nostril is any more dangerous than putting it in your eye or in your mouth. It all goes down the same tube.

If it was dangerous, it seems odd the FDA would approve something like Refresh PM.

lynninnj · Post by **lynninnj** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:45 pm

iirc petroleum jelly can cause silicone to break down.

lazarus · Post by **lazarus** » Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:47 pm

I found case reports for putting vasoline up the nose. I found none for approved opthalmic use. But I respect anyone's self-assessment of risk vs. reward for any use of any OTC product or prescribed med. We all have different levels of comfort with all such risks, I reckon.

The lipid pneumonia question

The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question

Re: The lipid pneumonia question