Phillips / Philips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread

[MotorCity]

The cost of potential medical bills from lung cancer are way higher than a new CPAP

We have no idea how many, if any at all, Respironics users will develop cancer as a result of exposure.

Among lifetime, heavy tobacco smokers, 23% develop lung cancer. And the risk to heavy smokers is cut in half after quitting for ten years.

Comparison of smoking to inhaling harmful VOC’s 6-8 hrs a day, every day, is like comparing apples to oranges.

No CPAP user has been exposed to foam VOCs for a lifetime. If all the foam in a Respironics machine were off-gassed, the amount of carcinogen is likely less than the amount of carcinogen inhaled from two packs of cigarettes.

where did you get this data?..
Someone who has inhaled VOC’s and Poisonous foam particles nightly over the course of 5+ years or 13,000+ hours you are comparing to 2 packs of cigarettes?..this is just foolish.

The body protects itself well from exposure to harmful carcinogens. Tiny amounts inhaled over the course of the night are unlikely to cause any cases of cancer. There was a time when unprotected industrial workers were exposed to relatively large amounts over years. That was a problem

where did you get this data?..
Someone who has inhaled VOC’s and Poisonous foam particles nightly over the course of 5+ years or 13,000+ hours you are comparing to 2 packs of cigarettes?..this is just foolish.

this VOC and foam particles exposure just didn’t occur over 1 night…
It was a problem with industrial workers because it happened day after day(shift after shift), week in and week out, year after year,,,same as a Phillips cpap usage.

[ChicagoGranny]

Someone who has inhaled VOC’s and Poisonous foam particles nightly over the course of 5+ years or 13,000+ hours you are comparing to 2 packs of cigarettes?..this is just foolish.

The 13,000 hours doesn't make any points for your argument. It makes points for the opposite argument. The weight of foam in a Respironics machine is one-third the weight of tobacco in two packs of cigarettes. If all of the foam is outgassed over five years, cellular defense mechanisms can easily repair these extremely tiny amounts.

The human body is exposed daily to tiny amounts of carcinogens in almost everything we eat, drink, breathe and rub up against.

BTW, tobacco smoke contains over 70 substances that are known carcinogens in humans or other animals.

[ChicagoGranny]

It was a problem with industrial workers because it happened day after day(shift after shift), week in and week out, year after year,,,same as a Phillips cpap usage.

No, the two exposures were very different. The chemicals the workers were being exposed to were constantly refreshed. The CPAP user is exposed over years to the amount of chemicals off-gassed from one very lightweight piece of foam. There is just very little that can be off-gassed from this small piece.

[MotorCity]

Someone who has inhaled VOC’s and Poisonous foam particles nightly over the course of 5+ years or 13,000+ hours you are comparing to 2 packs of cigarettes?..this is just foolish.

The 13,000 hours doesn't make any points for your argument. It makes points for the opposite argument. The weight of foam in a Respironics machine is one-third the weight of tobacco in two packs of cigarettes. If all of the foam is outgassed over five years, cellular defense mechanisms can easily repair these extremely tiny amounts.

The human body is exposed daily to tiny amounts of carcinogens in almost everything we eat, drink, breathe and rub up against.

BTW, tobacco smoke contains over 70 substances that are known carcinogens in humans or other animals.

Weight in tabacco vs weight of toxic foam is giving you a data point?
Science class was definitely not your strong suit.

Exposure to toxic foam night after night,,,exposure to KNOWN cancer causing VOCs night after night, for years,,,there is your data point. Work from there my friend.
Apples and Oranges

[zonker]

[metaltech]

I am in a tough situation here. I have a Phillips Respironics Bipap ST. I really need treatment. I was at a starting AHI of 69 and with treatment float between 4 and 10 on an average night. I have complex apnea. I am a CHF patient with moderate hypertension, dabetes, with back and knee issues. I have no medical insurance and am physically unable to work. I am in that in between state disabled but not disabled. My dr's staff tells me not to use the machine. I am concerned that the recall process could take a while. I am afraid of not surviving the wait. Is the issue with the recall as serious as they claim?

[Grumpy48]

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep........"

How many have discontinued use of their foam mattress or pillows due to nightly exposure to highly toxic VOC's which is made worse by the heat of your body laying directly on it? The foam used in a CPAP is at best comprised of a small nine square inches of foam and maybe an 1/8" in thickness. Compare that to the ginormous size of queen or king mattress and pillows that you lay on nightly inhaling the off-gassing VOC's probably in a concentration 100's of times more than the small strips of foam used in your Philips CPAP. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned about the foam in your CPAP or continue its use, but perhaps put things in proper perspective of other things around you which could potentially cause greater harm .

https://www.sleepadvisor.org/toxic-mate ... attresses/

[Dan_McD]

I am in a tough situation here. I have a Phillips Respironics Bipap ST. I really need treatment. I was at a starting AHI of 69 and with treatment float between 4 and 10 on an average night. I have complex apnea. I am a CHF patient with moderate hypertension, dabetes, with back and knee issues. I have no medical insurance and am physically unable to work. I am in that in between state disabled but not disabled. My dr's staff tells me not to use the machine. I am concerned that the recall process could take a while. I am afraid of not surviving the wait. Is the issue with the recall as serious as they claim?

It is serious. How serious at the present time is a lot of speculation. Philips however has made the recall that can amount to $$billions effecting their bottom line. I think Philips thinks it is serious. The FDA has produced their opinion and it appears they think it is serious. There are some members of this forum and have commented in this very thread that don't think it is serious. I put my Philips Dreamstation in the closet and purchased a new ResMed 10 APAP machine. I think it is serious.

In your situation, your health issues, your financial situation, your disabilities, really has no bearing on whether the machine is detrimental to your health or whether the recall issue is serious or not. Given the information that has been generated since June 14th the likelihood of a Philips breathing machine putting off unhealthy gasses is probably a serious issue.

If you cannot start using another machine, the next best thing is to remove the foam from your machine and use it until your situation improves or Philips miraculously sends you a new one.

There are several YouTube videos on how to remove the foam from a Philips CPAP, BIPAP machine. God Bless

[MotorCity]

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep........"

How many have discontinued use of their foam mattress or pillows due to nightly exposure to highly toxic VOC's which is made worse by the heat of your body laying directly on it? The foam used in a CPAP is at best comprised of a small nine square inches of foam and maybe an 1/8" in thickness. Compare that to the ginormous size of queen or king mattress and pillows that you lay on nightly inhaling the off-gassing VOC's probably in a concentration 100's of times more than the small strips of foam used in your Philips CPAP. Not saying you shouldn't be concerned about the foam in your CPAP or continue its use, but perhaps put things in proper perspective of other things around you which could potentially cause greater harm .

https://www.sleepadvisor.org/toxic-mate ... attresses/

wait… what manufacturers are making foam mattresses that contain Toluene Diamine, Toluene Diisocyanate, Diethylene glycol or - Dimethyl Diazine, Phenol, 2,6-bis (1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-(1-methylpropyl)

that are ABOVE safe thresholds?…Now you have me interested.
Although I still wouldn’t sleep on one.

[Dan_McD]

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep........"

Not saying you shouldn't be concerned about the foam in your CPAP or continue its use, but perhaps put things in proper perspective of other things around you which could potentially cause greater harm .

https://www.sleepadvisor.org/toxic-mate ... attresses/

Here are some more scary things to consider....

Like going to see a doctor: The Institute of Medicine report estimated 98,000 Americans were dying annually due to medical errors.
Like driving a car: The nonprofit National Safety Council estimates in a report issued Thursday that 42,060 people died in vehicle crashes in 2020,
Like walking across the street: An analysis of data reported by State Highway Safety Offices (SHSOs) projects that 6,721 pedestrians were killed on U.S. roads in 2020.
Like eating food: In the United States, the odds of one dying from choking on food is around 1 in 2,535.

[SirGaspAlot]

Yes I do expect that, especially since its under warrantee. Secondly because my life depends on it.

You must still believe in Santa Claus if you believe Philips is going to replace everyone's machine with another manufacturer. It would still take a upwards of a year for another manufacturer to make four million CPAP machines in addition to their normal sales. Philips' obligation is to provide you with a safe CPAP machine and it will be another Philips machine. We don't know what the exact plan is yet, but it sounds like some or all of the machines will be replaced with the Dreamstation 2 that doesn't have the foam issue.

If your ford vehicle breaks do you expect Ford to replace it with a new GM vehicle?

I'm almost certain there will be a class action suit over this. The settlement will probably be a coupon for a Philips mask or supplies for your Philips CPAP machine, or something else of little real value.

I do indeed and you should too.

[ChicagoGranny]

Exposure to toxic foam night after night,,,exposure to KNOWN cancer causing VOCs night after night, for years,,,there is your data point. Work from there my friend.
Apples and Oranges

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." - Paracelsus, The Father of Toxicology, 16th century. His finding is still a basic toxicology maxim.

Apples and Oranges

Oranges contain no amygdalin. Apples contain amygdalin which is a cyanide/sugar based molecule. It breaks down in the human body to produce hydrogen cyanide.

[ChicagoGranny]

The foam used in a CPAP is at best comprised of a small nine square inches of foam and maybe an 1/8" in thickness.

Even smaller than I thought! There isn't much of a volume of VOCs in there to off-gas.

[MotorCity]

Above is ALL just tomfoolery.

If Phillips and the FDA are acknowledging there is a problem, and literally EVERYONE would agree the problem is probably bigger then they would ever admit…You have REAL data that says otherwise?

other then thousands people die crossing the street every year,,,there’s nothing here to see folks

[ChicagoGranny]

You have REAL data that says otherwise?

You have no data.