Condensation? Eson mask? Humidifier or not?

Hi, everyone:

So now I'm on my THIRD mask. This one: https://www.google.com/search?q=eson+na ... BvZf73M%3A

The first night was OK because it was similar to my Wisp mask, but had cloth instead of plastic and has a better design that allows the nose piece to sit firmly on my face. The bad side is that it doesn't have a top loop to thread the hose above my head, so I had to gerry rig it.

Last night was my second night and I was awakened by condensation dripping over my nose and inside the nose piece. What?! This has never happened before. Anybody know what may cause this? Should I try NOT using the humidifier? I'm not really sure it helps or not anyway.

Can you tell us the exact model number of your machine....look on the bottom of the blower unit for a 3 digit number? If possible...a heated hose would be worth considering if your machine supports it. The humidifier you have chosen is for a 50 series machine but if you are new to therapy you more likely have a 60 series machine and the 60 series machine supports an integrated heated hose which really helps with condensation issues.

You can reduce the humidity setting from 2 to 1 to see if it helps with the condensation.
You could use a hose cover/cozy to help keep the air in the hose warmer so that it doesn't cool to the point of condensation.
By routing the hose overhead you have created a situation where any condensation up near the mask is going to go downhill into your face. Water can't run uphill.
You could maybe warm up the ambient bedroom temp to help prevent the cooling of the air.

See the 2 posts here about condensation at the mask level or the hose level. I think the 2nd and 3rd posts.
viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html

You have more options than just reducing or turning off the humidifier....condensation in the mask or hose can occur even if no humidifier is used at all so turning off isn't a given that it won't happen if the issue is exhaled breath condensation.

Thanks, Pugsy!

Actually, I'm going on 9 months of continuous therapy and I've never ONCE had a drop of condensation from any of my masks. I am at work, so I can't tell you what the number is on my machine, nor if I have a heated hose capability. I just know that I've been instructed to set on my "heat" for the humidifier chamber about 15 minutes before going to bed, and this is the first time I've had this experience with the nose piece having droplets of water in it.

Also, my Wisp was above my head, too, just like this new mask, and I never had a problem with water.

Do you find the humidifier helpful at all? Some of my friends don't even bother with it.

I think the Eson mask has some sort of diffuser in the venting system and that diffuser may have accumulated some condensation in it and thus run down to your face.
I think it is called the "Q cover"
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... -mask.html
it helps diffuse the vent noise....you might try removing that diffuser and see if condensation still remains a problem. I think it simply didn't/couldn't dry sufficiently and so you got some water dripping and it most likely is the moisture in your own exhaled breath that is the culprit...so I doubt that turning the humidifier off or down will stop it. I am not sure but I think the diffuser is optional....can someone who uses the Eson confirm???
I have never used or seen the Eson.

About using the humidifier...I need it and I need it badly. I tried reducing the humidity setting way back when I was first starting therapy and I had some horrible nasal symptoms. Symptoms that returned on the nights that I forgot to add water and I ran the humidifier dry...so it has happened enough times that I know that I need the added moisture. My nose likes and needs the most moisture it can get. I have long said that if I couldn't used the humidifier (if it was broken) that I simply wouldn't use the machine because the horrible nasal symptoms lasted for days and days and to me was worse than OSA symptoms. I know not a smart way to look at it but that's how I feel.
And I don't live in a "dry" area....where I live it is like the south...high humidity most of the time.

That said...that is just me and I know that there are people who use low settings, passover or no humidifier at all and their nasal mucosa don't act up like mine do (picture the most horrible allergy attack) so it really is a highly personal preference.
While technically the humidifier use is for comfort...it is essential to me for effective therapy.
Google "cpap rhinitis" and you will see why adding moisture has become so common place now. More people need the added moisture than don't need it.

But for your new issue...I think it is that diffuser on the Eson that is the culprit.
If you love the mask otherwise...maybe removing the diffuser (if possible) would be sufficient to fix the problem.
If you love the mask otherwise but can't remove the diffuser (or if removing it doesn't help) then you can investigate the other methods for preventing condensation.

The 50 series machines were discontinued long before you started therapy 9 months ago but it wouldn't be impossible for a DME to have given you an older model machine.
You probably should educate yourself on exactly which model you are using ...anyway...everyone should know exactly what they are using.
Oh...while looking at the model number....look on the power brick and see if it says 60 or 80 watt.

Thanks again. That is a wealth of information.

Interestingly, I didn't notice the Q cover or what its purpose served on my mask. It wasn't discussed when given to me last week. I just knew that the actual mask felt better than the Wisp. If the condensation continues to be a problem, I will investigate the options you suggested. I really hope it was a fluke because this mask.

Another interesting point: Before I started this nine months ago, I never had a nasal problem. Now I do. One or more of my nostrils gets stuffed up every night or throughout the day, which caused me to ditch the P10 nasal pillows and use a nose piece. It sucks because the nasal pillows are so much easier. I have used the humidifier religiously and it has not helped this plugged up problem. Maybe NOT using it would!??

Lauperfan wrote:Maybe NOT using it would!??

I always cringe with this option because of my own personal experience but if your nasal mucosa prefer less moisture then it may help with the congestion issues you are experiencing.
Worth investigating and maybe trying but I would go on the cautious side first...try reducing the setting to 1 and see what happens before totally turning it off and either using passover (water in the chamber but no heat added) or going totally without any water at all. Side note...the humidifier being attached has been reported to act as a muffler for the machine noise...so even if no water is used you might make note of machine noise if you elect to remove the humidifier.

It wouldn't be impossible for your nasal mucosa to be of the type to prefer drier instead of wetter.

It's funny but the nasal mucosa react essentially the same way no matter what makes them unhappy...they swell up in response to too much moisture or too little moisture and sort of go into "allergy" response mode.
FWIW I found that my minor nasal congestion issues pre cpap essentially went away once I added moisture and I learned that my nose just likes more moisture...so I even use Simply Saline during the day if I find I experience a little congestion for some reason and 99% of the time it works for me.

There is no real right or wrong choice...there's just what works for the individual and what works varies widely among the population.

Give it a try...see what happens...that way you know for sure and won't be wondering "what if".

Thanks again. I appreciate your helpful advice.

I will reduce my humidity level to 2 and see if that helps. It's on a five right now. I am certainly not confident if the humidity has caused this congestion or not, only that I never had it before CPAP therapy. I do know that the humidifier does not bother me when I'm using it, but I would love to start my sleep with two clear nasal passages!!

I think it's interesting that the Wisp didn't give me a condensation problem. Maybe it's that Q thing you mentioned. Hmm. Also, my provider said that we will "keep trying masks until we get the right one, but if we run out of samples to try, you may have to go to the the Aprea store."

Have you done this? Do they have samples to try for fitting?

I don't know anything about the Apria store or what that means

I am pretty sure that with the Eson the diffuser thing is the likely culprit for the condensation annoyance and if that's the case it's the moisture from your own exhaled breath that is the primary source and reducing the humidity setting may not do away with the moisture.
Worth a try though.
I know that the diffuser can be removed...I know it can be changed but I don't know if the mask can be used totally without the diffuser.

Have you tried the ResMed Swift FX Nano? It's very similar to the Wisp but I had much better luck with the Nano than I did with the Wisp. With the Wisp I had major nasal congestion issues just from the mask pushing on my turbinate area...relieved immediately if I pulled the mask away...but didn't have the same problem with the Nano so it didn't put the same pressure in the same area and it surprised the heck out of me that I was able to use the Nano (been a nasal pillow user since I first started cpap) successfully. I only made it 90 minutes with the Wisp but I had a successful trial of the Nano with multiple headgear choices over 30 days...and that's saying a lot for this old nasal pillow user.
I have never wanted to try the Eson...don't like stuff on my forehead at all plus the lower strap across the jawline would annoy me something awful. So I haven't ever even seen one. So I am zero help with it.

But if your main issue is congestion....maybe dialing in on the cause of the congestion might make mask preference an easier choice.

These are all great questions.

I'll have to check into the diffuser thing on the Eson because I didn't know about it until you mentioned it, nor did I know it may have something to do with condensation. But I wonder why it wouldn't have been a problem two nights ago? If so, I will not be continuing with this mask (especially if the diffuser is crucial). I also don't like the face straps, but the nasal pillows seem unrealistic given my congestion issues. I brought this up to the clinician and she said I may need to see an ENT first. I may pursue that.

I have not tried a Swift FX Nano. Gosh, there are just TOO many options out there! I feel like after almost a year, I should know ONE thing that works well. It's bad enough that with each new experiment, I'm starting all over again with the adjustment period. I found that the Wisp pulled upward on my nose too much, so I would lose the seal and then wake up with a red mark across my nose. The Eson is shaped better, despite the straps.

Ugh. I'm feeling deflated now.

Lauperfan wrote:I wonder why it wouldn't have been a problem two nights ago?

Is the ambient air temp in your bedroom/house a little cooler? That's the other main variable for condensation forming (along with ambient room humidity). I don't know where you live but last 36 hours where I live it has rained almost non stop and the temps have dropped to the 40s and 50s where we had been seeing 60s.
I have left the windows open and it's been pretty brisk....and I have no doubts that if I hadn't been using a heated hose that I would have been snorting water in my nasal pillows. Been there and done that enough times to know that when the bedroom cools down much that the chances of condensation increase dramatically.
I either snort the water or get a cold shower on my face when the moisture gets blown out the vent holes.
Won't hurt me...but sure is annoying.

Pugsy, I live in Long Beach, CA, where it is always the same temperature. LOL. Unless, of course, it's just hotter. It never rains. Also, there's been no change in temperature, either outside or inside the house/bedroom. Last night, I turned my humidifier down from 5 to 2. I didn't have a single droplet of moisture, so hopefully that will do the trick. If so, I think I may be able to tolerate this mask.

Honestly, I can't believe it's 2016, MILLIONS of people suffer with this condition, and this is the *best* technology can provide. It's really pretty disappointing. Think of how many conditions, illnesses and diseases are treated and even cured these days. Even cinnamon dental floss has been around for ages!