Airsense 10 & Dreamstation Algorithms

My new sleep doc is switching me from a fixed pressure therapy of 8 to a variable pressure therapy with a 5 to 15 range. I will be getting a new Auto CPAP machine, either the ResMed Airsense 10 or the Respironics Dreamstation. I've read about the different approaches (or is "methods" a better word) to therapy, based on different algorithms used for these two machines, but it honestly goes over my head.

I assume that switching from fixed to variable pressure therapy may take some getting used to, and that perhaps it would be good to know if one of these machines may handle the changes in pressure more "gently" than the other. Can anyone help me understand the different algorithms used by ResMed and Respironics? Are there significant differences or are they pretty much the same?

bcab17 wrote:My new sleep doc is switching me from a fixed pressure therapy of 8 to a variable pressure therapy with a 5 to 15 range. I will be getting a new Auto CPAP machine, either the ResMed Airsense 10 or the Respironics Dreamstation. I've read about the different approaches (or is "methods" a better word) to therapy, based on different algorithms used for these two machines, but it honestly goes over my head.

I assume that switching from fixed to variable pressure therapy may take some getting used to, and that perhaps it would be good to know if one of these machines may handle the changes in pressure more "gently" than the other. Can anyone help me understand the different algorithms used by ResMed and Respironics? Are there significant differences or are they pretty much the same?

going from 8 to 5 is likely a mistake. I wouldn't start with less than a minimum pressure of 7, myself.

resmeds are more responsive in an effort to prevent as many breathing events as possible, respironics will get there, but they take the slow bus.... not necessarily the short bus, just the slow one.

fixed pressure therapy of 8 to a variable pressure therapy with a 5 to 15 range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ Bad idea. If you're doing fine on 8, don't go lower as you'll be guaranteed to have a cluster of events at the start of each night. If you really want to start lower than 8, at most go down to 7.

Re: the algorithms, they are dramatically different, and Resmed's algorithm is definitely more aggressive, particularly at squashing flow limitations. If you have UARS and are prone to frequent awakenings like me, Philips is what I recommend. There's a few useful posts on here which I've found by searching for terms like algorithm. A paper was even published a few years ago that explains the algorithms in great detail (don't know the link offhand but it was referenced in the posts).

MrKDilkington wrote:

fixed pressure therapy of 8 to a variable pressure therapy with a 5 to 15 range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ Bad idea. If you're doing fine on 8, don't go lower as you'll probably have a cluster of events at the start of each night. If you really want to start lower than 8, at most go down to 7.

ftfy. you don't *know*, he might have been overprescribed at 8. but changing the pressure that much is a bad idea. if it sits at 7 and never goes up, then he could try 6, etc.

MrKDilkington wrote: A paper was even published a few years ago that explains the algorithms in great detail (don't know the link offhand but it was referenced in the posts).

unfortunately, it's a paper about old technology.

palerider wrote:unfortunately, it's a paper about old technology.

From sleepyhead charts of the Dreamstation, the fundamentals of the Philips algorithm are unchanged. They're still using the sawtooth hunt and peck design, even if it's been tweaked and refined. It's an old article but relevant enough to help sway your purchase.

MrKDilkington wrote:

palerider wrote:unfortunately, it's a paper about old technology.

From sleepyhead charts of the Dreamstation, the fundamentals of the Philips algorithm are unchanged. They're still using the sawtooth hunt and peck design, even if it's been tweaked and refined. It's an old article but relevant enough to help sway your purchase.

I did not know that Sleepyhead was now compatible with the Dreamstation? When did that happen? I am going to try and get a download to review my new machines data.

I would agree that the "hunt and peck" method is basically unchanged in the Respironics machine. However, the Airsense 10 for her has some differences especially in the "for her" algorithm.

bcab17 wrote:My new sleep doc is switching me from a fixed pressure therapy of 8 to a variable pressure therapy with a 5 to 15 range. I will be getting a new Auto CPAP machine, either the ResMed Airsense 10 or the Respironics Dreamstation. I've read about the different approaches (or is "methods" a better word) to therapy, based on different algorithms used for these two machines, but it honestly goes over my head.

I assume that switching from fixed to variable pressure therapy may take some getting used to, and that perhaps it would be good to know if one of these machines may handle the changes in pressure more "gently" than the other. Can anyone help me understand the different algorithms used by ResMed and Respironics? Are there significant differences or are they pretty much the same?

Have you been using a fully data-capable machine all these years? Which one? If so, my suggestion would be to set up the new machine just like your current/previous one (fixed pressure......for a period of time) and see how they compare. THEN, after you've reviewed the data, make a determination whether a range of pressures is warranted......and why. But, if the fixed pressure of 8 cm. has been delivering decent therapy, I would use that as the minimum and set the upper pressure about 5 centimeters higher (for another limited period of time) and then evaluate the results. Some peoples' breathing characteristics can work with APAPs and some of them don't. That's why I suggest approximately a week with each setting for evaluation purposes.
As has been reported, there are definitely differences in the machines and their algorithms, and either or both may or may not work well for each user (in APAP mode with a range of pressures). If you have the opportunity to use both, by all means, try them both to see which one works better for you.


Den

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No experience with the Dream Station, but I just switched from a PRS1 to the Airsense Auto. I find the algorithm VERY different in a nice way--I can barely feel the pressure from the Airsense, I can't really hear it, and I don't notice the pressure changes. I'm guessing they have a very subtle pressure change.

To be fair, I didn't notice pressure changes with the PRS1 much either as I was usually asleep, but the PRS1 was very noisy in comparison, and I always felt like there was a lot of pressure, a lot of forcing me to breathe in it's rhythm. In contrast, the Airsense feels very gentle. I don't feel like it's pushing me to breathe, I'm not aware of a lot of airflow unless the mask is leaking and then WOW, it's definitely pushing a lot of air!

So I'm not one to wake from pressure changes in the first place, but I don't think I'd even perceive pressure changes with the Airsense.

From what I understand, the new Dreamstations are also very quiet and have a different algorithm from the PRS1's, so my experience may not apply.

viewtopic/t111126/Airsense-10-Autopap-v ... topap.html

There was just a recent thread on this topic. The Airsense definitely adjusts pressure more gradually.

Thank you for all the helpful replies. This place is awesome! One suggestion (to get both machines and test) is the only way to truly compare both, and I will ask the therapist if my insurance will allow for that.

My initial response to research was that the Dreamstation sounded great, and I thought about making a switch after years using only ResMed machines. However, the more I look into this, the more the Arisense 10 Auto sounds like the best choice. I definitely prefer it's form factor (it's shape and footprint would fit better on my night stand). However, I do have a few (perhaps minor) issues/questions that hopefully some Airsense 10 owners can shed some light on:

1) I prefer to travel (short 1 or 2 night trips) with a CPAP/APAP without the humidifier (for the smallest possible size), would I need to purchase a side cover separately for the Airsense 10? Is there any problem using this machine with an empty (no water) humidifier attached? How many inches does the humidifier add to the Airsense 10 width when attached?

2) With the hose attachment in the rear, I would want either a rotating coupler or at least a right angle coupler so I can direct the hose towards the bed. It looks like the optional heated tubing has a rotational connector, but what about the standard hose? Does it stick straight out of the back of the machine?

3) The Airsense 10 came out a couple of years ago (I think). Since my old S8 is still functioning, would it make sense to wait for a new CPAP/APAP from ResMed? Do you know what their pattern has been in terms of how many years between new models? I only ask this because my current insurance covers a new machine with $0 deductible, but in a few years I will be losing that coverage, at which time a new machine will certainly cost substantially more (than $0 deductible).

Again, thank you for all the help!

1) I prefer to travel (short 1 or 2 night trips) with a CPAP/APAP without the humidifier (for the smallest possible size), would I need to purchase a side cover separately for the Airsense 10? Is there any problem using this machine with an empty (no water) humidifier attached? How many inches does the humidifier add to the Airsense 10 width when attached?

2) With the hose attachment in the rear, I would want either a rotating coupler or at least a right angle coupler so I can direct the hose towards the bed. It looks like the optional heated tubing has a rotational connector, but what about the standard hose? Does it stick straight out of the back of the machine?

3) The Airsense 10 came out a couple of years ago (I think). Since my old S8 is still functioning, would it make sense to wait for a new CPAP/APAP from ResMed? Do you know what their pattern has been in terms of how many years between new models? I only ask this because my current insurance covers a new machine with $0 deductible, but in a few years I will be losing that coverage, at which time a new machine will certainly cost substantially more (than $0 deductible).

1. I can't remember if it's possible to turn the humidifier heat off completely. You might download the clinical manual to see if it says in there. I'll try to remember to check tonight. I would not run the humidifier dry unless it's possible to turn the heating element completely off. What about using your current machine as your "travel machine"? That's what I intend to do.

2. There is a 90 degree angle swivel coupler that comes with the machine. It does stick out a little bit, but it turns 360 degrees.

3. It's up to you, but it may be a while.

I have the Airsense 10 for Her. You do need either the humidifier on it or the cap to keep the air from blowing out of the side. I bring my humidifier on trips since there's a spot in the case for it anyway. I just go into the climate setting, turn it to manual and then set the humidifier to off. I don't want to have to bring distilled water with me so that's my solution.

The climate hose does rotate, but the one that came with my machine just sticks straight in the back and does not rotate.

I don't know about a newer model coming up. This is my first time using any machine. I didn't know about differences in algorithms, but this seems to work well. I would say ResMed's marketing strategy of for her products was a good idea as I went for the purple for her headgear with my mask(F10 for Her) and the flower covered machine. I also have a pink pad-a-cheek liner. Of course, this may not be a part of your consideration!

Meaux83 wrote:I have the Airsense 10 for Her. You do need either the humidifier on it or the cap to keep the air from blowing out of the side. I bring my humidifier on trips since there's a spot in the case for it anyway. I just go into the climate setting, turn it to manual and then set the humidifier to off. I don't want to have to bring distilled water with me so that's my solution.

The climate hose does rotate, but the one that came with my machine just sticks straight in the back and does not rotate.

I haven't tried it yet, but cpap.com does have a Tubing Elbow Adapter for CPAP that is supposed to fit all machines. This would solve the problem of the slimline or standard hose sticking straight out. Doesn't rotate, but I've not really found that necessary.

This is the Resmed side cover that goes in place of the water chamber.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... cover.html


I would just the heated climateline hose as it rotates and is at 90 degree angle to the machine. Very handy even if not using the heat.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... ve-10.html