Ice in humidifier chamber

I've been using a Respironics system one BiPAP but the only way I can use it is by filling the humidifier chamber with ice and I must repeat this every 2-3 hours. With room temp or warmer air I feel as though I'm suffocating. My pulmonologist has just tried to put me on a Trilogy unit but the (add ion) humidification chamber is quite small and the openings are too small to permit the insertion of ice cubes. 1) Am I the only person on the planet with issue? 2) Has anyone found a chamber that could be filled with ice & used with the Trilogy? 3) Has anyone tried to create an improvised chamber? I'm thinking of drilling 2 holes in a large plastic thermos and sealing an input & output tube in place with epoxy or silicone. The top of the thermos would unscrew to permit the introduction of ice. Periodic cleaning could be accomplished by soaking it in a soapy (or perhaps mild chlorine) solution. Any suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated. I cannot use a unit that doesn't give me cold air.

The reason why the humidifier has a heat source (when you turn it on) is because the warmer the water is the more moisture it can transfer to you.

If the water is cold, like after putting ice in the container, the transfer of moisture is reduced greatly. More moisture requires warmer water, blame it on physics.

That and the CPAP is not a refrigerator, it uses the ambient air in the room. If you have the humidity setting to off, then the temp of the air should be very close to the room temperature.

While there are several posts on CPAPtalk about making contraptions like you are talking about, I'm not sure how effective they are.

I think you would have a better and much easier to deal with method of getting cold air by cooling the room you are sleeping in. The extra cost of cooling the room down might cost more than it is worth though.

Living in the desert in AZ, my sleeping room sits around 80F most of the time during the summer and above 75F during the winter. It is dry in the room though and so that really doesn't feel hot. I normally have the humidifier on one of the lowest settings and dont use a heated hose.

epollak wrote:I've been using a Respironics system one BiPAP but the only way I can use it is by filling the humidifier chamber with ice and I must repeat this every 2-3 hours. With room temp or warmer air I feel as though I'm suffocating. My pulmonologist has just tried to put me on a Trilogy unit but the (add ion) humidification chamber is quite small and the openings are too small to permit the insertion of ice cubes. 1) Am I the only person on the planet with issue? 2) Has anyone found a chamber that could be filled with ice & used with the Trilogy? 3) Has anyone tried to create an improvised chamber? I'm thinking of drilling 2 holes in a large plastic thermos and sealing an input & output tube in place with epoxy or silicone. The top of the thermos would unscrew to permit the introduction of ice. Periodic cleaning could be accomplished by soaking it in a soapy (or perhaps mild chlorine) solution. Any suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated. I cannot use a unit that doesn't give me cold air.

Sort of sounds like you don't have your heated humidifier turned completely off.
There have been MANY discussions about this subject in the past. Keeping some quantities of distilled water in the refrigerator, cooling some in the freezer to the point where it's really cold but not quite frozen, and adding ice to the HH tank.
Not knowing where you live, it's kind of hard to make recommendations, but it has indeed been discussed in the past.
There are external HH tanks (made by Fisher & Paykel)
Like this one:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... hc105.html


Den

.

Your needs are specialized enough that I would echo the suggestion to use an external humidifier tank. Then you can use whatever PAP machine you want without worrying about the humidification needs you have.

This humidifier looks like it's large enough to hold ice cubes:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... atures-tab

I live in southeastern PA but the fact is that I just feel as though I'm suffocating without the ice. I do NOT have the heater element on and it doesn't matter how cold the room is. And cold water just doesn't do it. I'm fully aware of the physics involved but I need the cold air more than the extra humidity. The fact is that the machine itself warms the water a bit, just from the heat generated by the motor. The only external humidification chamber I've seen for this unit is the one you mentioned (i.e., Fisher & Paykel Humidification Starter Kit 900HC105) but there's no way to introduce any significant amount of even crushed ice, much less cubes that would take longer to melt and, therefore, work better.
Of course, the best thing to use would be an external chamber that could be filled with water, placed in the freezer & frozen solid. I actually tried that with the chamber for my System One BiPAP but after about a week of that kind of treatment it starts to spring a leak. I even tried coasting the inside with various substances but the power of expanding ice handily defeated them all and the fumes from some made it a bit risky to use. Can this be so rare or difficult a problem that none of the companies has found a solution?

If you feel you're suffocating, maybe your pressure is not set high enough... what are the settings?

epollak wrote:I live in southeastern PA but the fact is that I just feel as though I'm suffocating without the ice. I do NOT have the heater element on and it doesn't matter how cold the room is. And cold water just doesn't do it. I'm fully aware of the physics involved but I need the cold air more than the extra humidity. The fact is that the machine itself warms the water a bit, just from the heat generated by the motor. The only external humidification chamber I've seen for this unit is the one you mentioned (i.e., Fisher & Paykel Humidification Starter Kit 900HC105) but there's no way to introduce any significant amount of even crushed ice, much less cubes that would take longer to melt and, therefore, work better.
Of course, the best thing to use would be an external chamber that could be filled with water, placed in the freezer & frozen solid. I actually tried that with the chamber for my System One BiPAP but after about a week of that kind of treatment it starts to spring a leak. I even tried coasting the inside with various substances but the power of expanding ice handily defeated them all and the fumes from some made it a bit risky to use. Can this be so rare or difficult a problem that none of the companies has found a solution?

Did you even bother to click on the link provided for a stand-alone passover unit ? Do you know about "heat exchangers" ? Maybe you can design one for your special needs. FWIW, they're not too likely to expend a lot of resources or time to come up with a solution to a problem that only a few experience.

stienman wrote:This humidifier looks like it's large enough to hold ice cubes:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... atures-tab

I saw that. If it was one large chasmber I think it would work well but from the pic, it seems that when the lid is closed, the interior is divided into a lot of small square segments that would make it difficult or impossible to fill with ice cubes. But if I do try a home made version, something like tat shape might work better than thermos.

It would probably be easier to make a custom ice cube maker that fits the humidifier you plan to use than it would take to make a custom humidifier.

That said, I suspect you could make a custom humidifier/cooler with pvc plumbing parts that would meet your needs and fit the hoses. It seems like that might be your only choice if you can't find a way to make ice that fits existing humidifiers.

No offense intended, but there may be better results if you address the psychological components of why this is occuring.

There are very real psychological effects of using CPAP. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using humidified cpap, and in fact, is better in the long run for tissues. They will get irritated over the years by blowing pressurized dry air over them. The turbinates were not meant to deal with pressurized air =)

I would encourage you to look at why you have issues here. Also, make sure your doc is getting all of your data. If you're not getting enough pressure, it could be causing all of this.

From "outside the box..."

If you lower your core body temperature, a breath of room temperature would be most refreshing...

Check this out.

http://www.veskimo.com/body-cooling-vest-products.php

Jenk2k wrote:No offense intended, but there may be better results if you address the psychological components of why this is occuring.

There are very real psychological effects of using CPAP. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using humidified cpap, and in fact, is better in the long run for tissues. They will get irritated over the years by blowing pressurized dry air over them. The turbinates were not meant to deal with pressurized air =)

I would encourage you to look at why you have issues here. Also, make sure your doc is getting all of your data. If you're not getting enough pressure, it could be causing all of this.

Interestingly, I have a Ph.D. in biological psychology. I also have a severely deviated septum which makes breathing through my nose harder than it might otherwise be. My pulmonologist is aware of my pressures. That was the first issue we addressed. Given that such a high percentage of CPAP patients are unable to use these units (18%-83% depending on the population being studies & criteria used to determine "compliance") I'm actually doing better than many (or most).

epollak wrote:
Interestingly, I have a Ph.D. in biological psychology. I also have a severely deviated septum which makes breathing through my nose harder than it might otherwise be. My pulmonologist is aware of my pressures. That was the first issue we addressed. Given that such a high percentage of CPAP patients are unable to use these units (18%-83% depending on the population being studies & criteria used to determine "compliance") I'm actually doing better than many (or most).

Much of that is due to lack of support provided by incompetent DMEs who have no clue how to fit a mask. When was the last time you bought a pair of shoes without at least walking around the store? I got better service buying a pair of runners then I got buying over $2000 of equipment. At the Runners World store I could also join groups of runners at what ever level I was at, for a small prices coaches were available to help my running. The staff knew exactly what they were selling and how it was supposed to fit. Can you imagine handing a pair of running shoes without trying them on and telling people they have to run for several hours a day and shoving them out the door with "Don't call us, we will call you when we want you to spend more money!"

epollak wrote:I also have a severely deviated septum which makes breathing through my nose harder than it might otherwise be.

Why put up with that? Get to an ENT and get an opinion on having it corrected. The surgeons have gotten quite good at this, and the recovery is quick. It can make a big improvement in your CPAP therapy.

epollak wrote:My pulmonologist is aware of my pressures.

It's almost a joke around here to let the medical profession control your therapy including the machine settings. I monitor and set my own pressures. When I see my sleep doc once per year, I tell her what pressures I am running and how I am doing. This is not unique. Most of the regulars here control their own therapy. I urge you to do the same.

Now just what are your pressures including any ramp time and pressure? You get better help here if you are forthcoming about the details.