Insomnia an effect of sleep anea? (Complicated)

I found out in April that I have sleep apnea. I am still waiting on my CPAP becuase I don't have health insurance, and am struggling to finance one.

My question is: Is it posible for insomnia to be an effect of sleep apnea? It takes me well over an hour to get to sleep every night. Also, when i wake up it can take me that long to get back to sleep. One of the sleep techs the sleep lab said my brain could be preventing me from getting sleep, due to how bad my sleep quality is. Is there any legitamacy to this?

I've been reading "Promise of Sleep", by William Dement, one of the founders of the Stanford Sleep Clinic. I would consider my insomnia to be "chronic", but he labels it as "intermitent" insomnia. Has anyone else out there with sleep apea found they had insomnia before thier diagnosis? I literally suck at sleep, and my apnea/insomnia is killing me.

My sleep doctor is basically telling me to wait until 8 wks of CPAP usage to come back and discuss this with him. I don't have the $$$ yet, and it could be a while until I get my CPAP. I really don't know what to do about my persistent insomnia, and its really taking it toll on me.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: Anyone with thoughts or some advice post or PM me. Thanks in advance.

Cory (Freakin Tired)

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Hi Cory
Let's take things one at a time.

Apnea, and quality of sleep:
When you have apnea your there's no pleasure to your sleep. I used to get jolted awake just about when I started falling asleep, and used to have trouble fallin asleep again after waking up with my heart racing in the middle of the night. I no longer have those symptoms, but it didn't happen overnight. First you have to get used to sleeping with mask an machine. Then you your sleep quality improves.

Insomnia:
Try this site for lots of info about kinds of insomnia, and how to deal with them. Maybe you'll find something that you can star doing till you manage to raise the price of a CPAP. The fact that you have sleep apnea doesn't excluded the possibilty that you've developed bad sleep habits - working on them now might help or not - but you can at least try.

Good luck - and I hope you raise your money soon. Did yo check the prices on the net?

O.

ozij:

I am a college student, but I'd like to think my sleep habits are healthy. I try to get to bed the same time everynight, I don't take caffiene, my windows are blackened out, etc. I think the whole insomnia thing could be related to my fatigue and depression that my apnea has caused me. It sucks so bad to only be 23, and not have the motivation to finish college, get a good job, or even date becuase I'm soooooooo tired. But I'm so glad I found out this early about my apnea, so that I can treat it, instead of having years and years of apnea's effects.

As far as the $$$ goes, shall I pass the hat around? I'm trying to go through a state office in KY called Vocational Rehab, which helps people with physical ailments and getting back to work/school. I'm suppose to find out something this week as to how much they'll help me out. Grrrrr... I hate our healthcare system.

I'm a senior citizen who's been suffering with insomnia for many, many years. It would take me about an hour to go to sleep and then I'd wake up in the wee hours of the morning and have one heck of a time trying to go back to sleep. Everyone told me "it's old age."

I finally found a doctor who sent me to a sleep lab and I feel like a different person. See if you can possible rent a machine. Check the internet.

I recently purchased a GoodKnight 420E with an integrated heated humidifer for travel purposes. It's a wonderful machine and I'm also using the Breeze nasal system.

I'm renting a Breas APAP machine, which I'm not that crazy about, and hardly anyone has ever heard of it. I'm planning on switching DME's.
I was diagnosed with this last December and if I had a decent DME, I'm sure I would have been properly fitted with a mask instead of having to waste time and money experimenting on my own with different masks. I'm also sure I would have been given a much better APAP machine with a heated humidifier.

Anyway, the main point is that I would like to encourage you to follow through. I never, in my wildest dreams, thought I had sleep apnea. I have a mild case and I'm on a pressure of 4 to 8. It does take time to adjust to everything, but it's well worth it.

Hang in there, and I wish you the best of luck.

Swords,
I can hear your frustration. Not getting enough quality sleep could be so frustrating. As someone who has suffered from insomnia, depression and OSA, I can relate to that. I am glad you are here and doing something about it. Don't expect miracles. That could make you more anxious and frustrated. Try to be sytematic about it.

Untreated OSA could cause depression and as a result, insomnia. You need to commit to getting and using the CPAP. With insomnia, expect to take a while to get used to the machine. Use this forum for help and support.

You also need to tackle all the underlying issues. This could be depression, stress or anxiety. Take it as a blessing to be diagnosed this early. Taking care of it now could avoid a lot of frustration down the road. Make sleep a special time. Try to avoid any stimulating activity an hour or two before bed time. Have a sleep ritual and relax.
Best wishes.

I have been on CPAP for 4 years and am just now starting to get over my insomnia. My theory is:

I spent years getting jolted out of bed nightly no knowing what the cause was. This created a certain fear of going to sleep, as a matter of fact I simply began putting off sleep until my eyes could no longer stay open.

After getting CPAP I was put on some really crappy, noisy machines, who's pressure tended to drift to ridicolous levels - so again I kind of feared going to sleep even with the machine, since most of the time I felt like I was suffocating due to way too high pressure.

Since switching to APAP all this has changed. The machine is quiet, comfortable with the CFLEX, and adjusts as needed for the apnea.

My insomnia is slowly getting better.

I do take 0.3mg of Melatonin before going to bed which for me helps. I read somewhere that the standard dose of 3mg was found to be way to high and does not help sleep. I think they are right because my sleep and insomnia have been gradually improving in the past several weeks.

Keep trying you will feel better!

I have always suffered from insomnia - my entire life. And right now, it seems like a long one. CPAP did not help my insomnia, at all. For me, the insomnia is an entirely separate issue from sleep apnea. It is pretty cyclic for me. I will go for 10 days on about 2-3 hours of sleep and then for the next week or so, I will sleep like a dream. When I have insomnia, I find the CPAP is something else to fight with simply because I am tossing and turning. When I am not sleeping, I have to get out of bed. Staying in bed, makes it worse. I will read an entire novel, trying to go to sleep. I have tried hypnosis , Lunestra, Ambien, Xanax - you name it. Nothing buys me any sleep until I discovered dramamine. 1 dramamine and I am out like a light. I get the same result with zyrtec for allergies - except that makes me drowsy all day. I personally just roll with it. If I don't I make myself crazy. I only take any med at all if I have not slept for around 4 days. That is pretty much my limit. I have no easy solution for you - wish I did. Trust me, at my age, I have tried it all. By the way, my cardiologist and my GP are the ones working with me on insomnia.......the sleep doctor was not interested. Makes you wonder.......

Hi Swordz,

I can't really help with the insomnia, as I don't have it, but would suggest that you research an organization called A.W.A.K.E. I don't know if they have a branch in KY, but they accept donations of used machines and will provide them to those in need -- might be worth looking into.

I have heard of getting the occasional machine on Yahoo auctions (I think -- you could search this forum for it).

The most important thing is to get started, so that you can get better! You have a great group of people to query here or vent! We can take it! Keep us posted on what is happening with you!

There are many wonderful folks here on the forum that have OSA & insomnia -- keep reading and learn as much as you can. I have been recommended the book by Dr. Dement -- but I'm ashamed to say that I haven't gotten it and read it -- so you are ahead of me!

Check out the prices on our host's web site at CPAP.COM -- I have purchased from them and they are good people & have excellent prices. Ted (known as Titrator on the forum) lives in Kentucky and provides phone support for CPAP.COM -- he is a RT and has worked in a sleep lab (not sure if he does now or not). He is very helpful and knowledgable. The Puritan Bennet machines are small, lightweight and can run on 12V if you are away from the grid camping or ?

Cory, have you been titrated? Do you know your pressure? If it isn't too high you may be able to get the humidifier later -- you should have pretty high humidity in KY for the summer. That might spread out the dollar outlay for you.

Just some thoughts -- you sound pretty desperate -- hang in there!

YES! Insomnia is a complicated diagnosis and many causes/effects are involved. First one must get to the root of what is causing the insomnia. I can't pinpoint exactly when my insomnia started, was it apnea first, insomnia? Who Knows? What I do know is that I logged when I first noticed not sleeping thru the night, even with sleep medication (pro's cons of that are legend on this board). I can say that the apap treatment may have helped the dozens and dozens of episodes per night of apnea/hypop's but it has done NOTHING for me for a full night's sleep. It just does not happen fo me. 5 mos. into it, I can tell I am ''better'' health wise in some areas but full night's sleep, refreshed tap dancing in the morning NOT.

For those who puts many of us down for using ''crutches'' such as sleep med's, my question is what would you rather us do. NEVER SLEEP? Impossible to think about.....

So keep trying solutions that work for YOU. You are your best advocate. For me, I take Lunesta. I get about 5-6 hrs on a good night. Now with allergy season, I'm more fragmented and sleeping less even with filtraton, ionizers (2) a/c on, you name it.

So be patient with yourself, I used to dread going to bed, actually staying awake, till I conked off in the chair and drag myself to the bed, where when I hit the pillow BOOM, wide awake.

Getting used to the cpap or apap or bipap, whatever you use, is a chore, but you must keep at it. Your body is sleep deprived and this therapy will help to slowly bring you back to perhaps better quality and hopefully quantit of sleep.

To the people who throw on a mask, plug in any 'ole' cpap and wake up tomorrow 7-8 hrs fully energized I would love to be in their shoes, even for one night.

You also have to take into account, any other med's you're on, conditions one may have (my case, diabetes), etc. All these are one part of the sleep puzzle.

I put on my nasal pillow (swift) turn on my apap, read and with Lunest am able to fall asleep.

I find whatever works, may work, keep trying is the best solution. Check this board, lots of tips, great people, possible answers and VENTING, it's the best and free therapy!

Good Luck, hope this helps you. You are not alone![quote="Swordz"]I found out in April that I have sleep apnea. I am still waiting on my CPAP becuase I don't have health insurance, and am struggling to finance one.

My question is: Is it posible for insomnia to be an effect of sleep apnea? It takes me well over an hour to get to sleep every night. Also, when i wake up it can take me that long to get back to sleep. One of the sleep techs the sleep lab said my brain could be preventing me from getting sleep, due to how bad my sleep quality is. Is there any legitamacy to this?

I've been reading "Promise of Sleep", by William Dement, one of the founders of the Stanford Sleep Clinic. I would consider my insomnia to be "chronic", but he labels it as "intermitent" insomnia. Has anyone else out there with sleep apea found they had insomnia before thier diagnosis? I literally suck at sleep, and my apnea/insomnia is killing me.

My sleep doctor is basically telling me to wait until 8 wks of CPAP usage to come back and discuss this with him. I don't have the $$$ yet, and it could be a while until I get my CPAP. I really don't know what to do about my persistent insomnia, and its really taking it toll on me.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: Anyone with thoughts or some advice post or PM me. Thanks in advance.

Cory (Freakin Tired)

Some vendors will sell reconditioned machines which is what I purchased when I didn't have insurance, however, it looks like prices on line for a new machine are what I paid for a used one. So be careful and shop around.

Good gosh, I'm gonna have to hire a secretary to go through all these posts. I haven't read all of them thoroughly yet, but I found out that I have an appointment with Voc Rehab tomorrow, and they are problably going to pay for the whole CPAP.

Now I guess the only problem is seeing which mask I will go with. At $100 a pop, I'm hoping to get the one I need first.

Oh, and about the difficulty in finding the cuase of insomnia, I agree. There are so many issues taht it can be, from what I"ve read. But I'm thinkin my biggest issue is my depression, which could very well be from my apnea from what I"ve read on here.

THANKS FOR THE THOUGHTS EVERYONE!

As a Voc Rehab Counselor you may want to ask if they have a specific company they have to go through. If not it would be a good idea to look at CPAP.com to get the best price possible. State voc rehab gets a set amount of money for the year and when it runs out there is nothing else (usually around end of July or so until October when the new fiscal year starts) for anyone- not just you but all of that counselors clients. If you are willing to help them out it will make them more willing to help you out with future needs.