Side sleeping, wedge pillows and leg pains

I said that before, you body doesn't like to bend in those un-natural directions. Using a wedge or adjustable bed like a craftmatic are great for watching TV, but lousy for actual sleeping.

Best thing to do is put some 2x4's blocks or bricks under the legs of the headboard of the bed, it tilts the whole bed leaving it flat and you can still sleep on your side, stomach or back without any un-natural bending. If you can only raise it by 3-4" that will help.

Is your machine still pegging out or has it dropped a bit?

If it is going to stay at 18 or 19 cm you need to borrow a Bipap and try that. AFlex is nice but I don't think it will offer the relief needed at those pressures. You might try setting it to 8 cm to 20 cm, and hope it doesn't run up until you are asleep.

At a minimum, I would set up the Auto:Ramp, set it for like 8.0 cm for 30-minutes, set Auto:Min=12 and Auto:Max=20, then hit the button to lower the noise and increase the comfort, at least it would help you get to sleep. Your AHI may even drop if many of those events are onset.

I've been on this therapy 7 years, my pressure is half of what yours is and I use Auto:Ramp every night, even use it on my 420e when I use that one, I could care less what others think about using it, you get no brownie points by not using it, it is all about sleep and getting more. If that feature helps you, use it, it doesn't impact your therapy at all.

FYI...for side sleepers, there is a new product by Contour Products called the CPAP pillow. It's similar to contoured cervical support pillows, but it has cutouts for a mask so sleeping on your side produces no pressure on the mask. I've used it for a week now and leaks are down to almost 0.

Yogurt is actually very low in lactose and is tolerated well by most with lactase deficiency.

I would second the recommendation, and also recommend a product called Kefir, available in most health food stores and some groceries, it is a yogurt that has 11 live/active cultures and therefore is 11 times better for you than regular yogurt. Trader joes carries it in a 1% version.

Jen

Wow! Thanks for all of the great advice. BTW, the head of my bed is elevated three inches. The wedge was just for additional elevation and it really is comfortable when sleeping on my back.

Well last night I threw both wedges out of the bed and just laid my head on a regular pillow while forcing myself to sleep on my side. Same results, pain in the legs during the night, feeling as if they were in a lateral bind with pressure centered around the knees. The pain goes away as soon as I get up.

I am not sure what causes this. I have mostly slept on my back for years so maybe it is just tendons/ligaments/muscles/whatever getting stretched in a way they are not used to.

I do a lot of exercise, but I am thinking the leg exercises are just moving forward. Hill climbing, barbell squats, deadlifts - no lateral motion of the legs. Maybe I need to watch some of those lateral leg exercises the babes do on the Fitness Channel. Yeah, that's it, I definitely need to watch some babes on the Fitness Channel tonight.

Regarding the xpap settings, I just could not tolerate 20 cm. With the A-Flex breathing was not a problem; the problem was adjusting the mask very tight to prevent major leaks, then still getting little leaks and whistles and sores around my nostril entrances.

Sleeping on my side I set the pressure range to 7 - 20, A-Flex setting to 3. As long as I can stay on my side my AHI has been well under 5, the 90% pressure is 8 and the max pressure is 10 most nights.

I am having trouble sleeping on my sides. I can always fall asleep quickly and sleep for two to three hours. Then when I awaken it is trouble the rest of the night.

So when I awaken, I take, on alternate nights, one Bendadryl (generic) and one 0.5 mg clonazepam (Klonopin). This helps for the rest of the night but does not provide perfect sleep. I alternate the meds to try to prevent their loss of effectiveness. Tonight is the clonazepam night - goody - it is much more pleasant and has less side effects than Benadryl.

I am wearing the Hybrid quite loose and with the A-Flex the leak rate is very low. The aerophagia is almost entirely gone. Sleeping on my side the mask does dig some deep marks into my face.

With AHI under control, I cannot say life is good yet because the sleep quality is so poor. I will see the ENT 11/9 and he will check whether the saline rinses/cortisone nasal spray have shrunk my large turbinates. I have a strong feeling that he will recommend surgery for turbinate reduction and straightening of septum's ess shape.

Thanks again for all of the great advice.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): AHI, aerophagia

That's just incredible that your 90 Percent pressure is only 8 on your side versus needing 20 on your back. I notice a big difference but not that much.

Funny I always thought I was a side sleeper who could not sleep on their back...little did I know that I was getting my deep sleep on my back. I was never able to go to sleep on my back but since forcing myself to sleep on my side I long to get on my back every night. A few tennis balls or a large pillow on my back is no obstacle at all. I think I would lay on nails to get on my back early in the morning. I have one of those tune belts that you use to hold a CD player while running that I have tried wearing. I put a hard softball in it...but it doesn't keep me off my back....doesn't matter whether I put it up at the shoulder blades or in the small of the back. The soccer ball under the tshirt tied at the waist with a belt is the only thing that has been 100 percent effective. It looks like the hunch back of ND.

I never felt very rested the first few weeks limiting myself to side sleeping. I usually get up once in the night and I switch to the other side then. I start out on the left side. I think I am slowly adjusting and hopefully you will too.

Last night I put the wedge pillow under the mattress. It seemed to work better than having it on top of the mattress...but I am still not much of a fan of a wedge pillow. ...too hard to keep the spine in line.

track wrote:.........

I never felt very rested the first few weeks limiting myself to side sleeping. I usually get up once in the night and I switch to the other side then. I start out on the left side. I think I am slowly adjusting and hopefully you will too.

........

Well thanks Track, that is a little ray of hope. How many weeks before you started sensing improved sleep?

Same results, pain in the legs during the night, feeling as if they were in a lateral bind with pressure centered around the knees. The pain goes away as soon as I get up.

If you don't want to get a special pillow for your knees, if you have an extra regular pillow around then put it between your knees tonight and see if it solves your problem. It will help keep you in alignment and just might do the trick.

socknitster wrote:Here is something to make you laugh, a couple of months ago I ordered something from cpap.com and when it came the UPS man was laughing. When I gave him a querilous look he said, when I first looked at this I thought it said CRAP.com and I was wondering what kind of crap you had ordered! Still makes me giggle.

Gave me a good belly laugh!

I looked back through my daily entries and it was in July that I committed to trying tennis balls to stay on my side. I had been cruising along with an AHI of 5-6 for months with no improvement no matter how I tinkered with the pressure so I tried side sleeping based on something someone said on the forum. I tried it for a couple of weeks and didn't feel very rested so I canned it for a couple of weeks..even though my AHI had dropped to the 3 to 4 range and the AI was below one. Of course I had to up the pressure when I quit sleeping exclusively on my side and the increased pressure was raising havoc with my stomach so I switched back to the side in september. I have been pretty steady with it for about a month...switching from side to side has helped a lot. At first I was trying to sleep all night on one side...and that was not very comfortable. It's not easy to turn over with a soccer ball on your back. I even tried taking a 30 pound dumbbell and laying it against my back....it worked but staying in one position all night is...as I said....very uncomfortable.

First, it's great to hear that your AHI has come down and you can use a lower pressure sleeping on your side! Congratulations. For me, too, it was hard at first to stay on my side all night long, but I got used to it. I had some aches and pains from it, but they seem to be ok, now.

rooster wrote:I am forcing myself to side sleep in order to reduce my apap pressure. I have been sleeping on a MedSlant wedge pillow which extends to the hips. Now that I switched to side sleeping I have leg pains in the bed particularly around my knees. It seems there is lateral stress on my legs caused by the bend in my body from sleeping on the wedge.

I just re-read this since I'm wondering if it's the kind of stiffness I used to get around my knees. I could barely walk down the stairs in the a.m. I just kind of hobbled down holding on to the railing. This pain would go away after a few hours, like yours.

I started taking a supplement called SAM-e (Nature Made makes it and I only get it when it's 50% off or 2 for 1 sale, since it's pricey). I started with 400 my once a day, but now take 400 mg twice a day. It cleared it up fabulously well. I am not ever stiff in the morning now. I've taken it for some years now.

It was osteoarthritis. SAM-e is rather expensive, but it does the trick for me. When I stop the pain comes back. It can take a little as 5 days to see if it will work. I saw my mother go through knee surgery and no way do I want that. So I use the SAM-e. It got rid of a lot of other more minor connective tissue pain, too, including an old rotator cuff injury that would act up sometimes.

If you continue to have this pain, you might want to try this. It's a supplement, so if you look on Puritanspride.com at their medical encyclopedia, you can find any side effects or things you shouldn't take it wtih.

Again, this makes me laugh. I have osteoarthritis (OA), plus oral allergy syndrome (OAS) plus obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). Luckily all of them are under control. But I could sign my correspondence:

Rosemary B, OA, OAS, OSA

It might impress someone .

rooster wrote:Wow! Thanks for all of the great advice. BTW, the head of my bed is elevated three inches. The wedge was just for additional elevation and it really is comfortable when sleeping on my back.

Well last night I threw both wedges out of the bed and just laid my head on a regular pillow while forcing myself to sleep on my side. Same results, pain in the legs during the night, feeling as if they were in a lateral bind with pressure centered around the knees. The pain goes away as soon as I get up.

I am not sure what causes this. I have mostly slept on my back for years so maybe it is just tendons/ligaments/muscles/whatever getting stretched in a way they are not used to.

I do a lot of exercise, but I am thinking the leg exercises are just moving forward. Hill climbing, barbell squats, deadlifts - no lateral motion of the legs. Maybe I need to watch some of those lateral leg exercises the babes do on the Fitness Channel. Yeah, that's it, I definitely need to watch some babes on the Fitness Channel tonight.

Could this fitness babe be the source of your pains? ...



Resistance is futile! ... submit your vote to me!

That hurts just thinking about it. Good to see you back here DreamStalker.

That is an impressive change in pressure needs! I would suggest some gentle stretching. Lemme see. . . There is a website called http://www.spinehealth.com that has some gentle stretches for lower back and legs. For some reason the pyriformus muscle comes to mind that it might help. I know you say the problem is your knees. But it isn't completely daft to think that it could be referred pain from your hips and your new sleep position. I once had a problem with my hip that sent pain all the way down to my food. Nerves are weird, indeed.

jen

socknitster wrote:That is an impressive change in pressure needs! I would suggest some gentle stretching. Lemme see. . . There is a website called http://www.spinehealth.com that has some gentle stretches for lower back and legs. For some reason the pyriformus muscle comes to mind that it might help. I know you say the problem is your knees. But it isn't completely daft to think that it could be referred pain from your hips and your new sleep position. I once had a problem with my hip that sent pain all the way down to my food. Nerves are weird, indeed.

jen

this site is pretty good:
http://www.spineuniverse.com/

I have chronic lower back pain in the L4-L5 region, it plays havoc with my sciatic nerve which is constant leg pain, have had several injections, they only helped a few days. The only time I have gotten relief from it was when I had my stroke, I lost all motor control to that side but when it came back so did the pain.

I found simple traction works the best, I have a LifeGear inversion table that I hang upside down from for 4-5 minutes every morning for 2-3 days when my back pain flares up, then it goes away for a month or so. I have a buddy that had the same he had the surgery and had it fused, while it took away his sciatica he still has issues with back pain but is still in the healing process.

I think if you can take the "weight" off the back in simple traction that seems to help the most, making a simple hanging platform from 2x4's so you can let your feet dangle with the weight off is all that is needed. Even a pull-up bar would work but it is pretty hard hanging on to the bar for that long, reason why those inversion tables are so popular, but they do work.

DreamStalker wrote:

rooster wrote:Wow! Thanks for all of the great advice. BTW, the head of my bed is elevated three inches. The wedge was just for additional elevation and it really is comfortable when sleeping on my back.

Well last night I threw both wedges out of the bed and just laid my head on a regular pillow while forcing myself to sleep on my side. Same results, pain in the legs during the night, feeling as if they were in a lateral bind with pressure centered around the knees. The pain goes away as soon as I get up.

I am not sure what causes this. I have mostly slept on my back for years so maybe it is just tendons/ligaments/muscles/whatever getting stretched in a way they are not used to.

I do a lot of exercise, but I am thinking the leg exercises are just moving forward. Hill climbing, barbell squats, deadlifts - no lateral motion of the legs. Maybe I need to watch some of those lateral leg exercises the babes do on the Fitness Channel. Yeah, that's it, I definitely need to watch some babes on the Fitness Channel tonight.

Could this fitness babe be the source of your pains? ...



Resistance is futile! ... submit your vote to me!

as you can tell I'm a Republican, Bush is in office because the dems didn't give us anyone better to choose from at election time.