Homeless W/Severe Sleep Apnea

Also, all those who claim they were "bullied", in fact, were not.

They were "pwned".

Sludge wrote:Also, all those who claim they were "bullied", in fact, were not.

They were "pwned".

Can you clarify that statement? Thanks!

49er

http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/p/f/pwned.htm I looked this up.

Stormynights wrote:http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/p/f/pwned.htm I looked this up.

Thanks Stormy for doing that.

I am still unclear as to what that has to do with bullying. Sorry if I am missing something obvious.

49er

I am only guessing but maybe you can refuse to be bullied but if not you are just taking the bait and become pwned.

Stormynights wrote:I am only guessing but maybe you can refuse to be bullied but if not you are just taking the bait and become pwned.

I think you nailed it, thanks.

49er

Avi and mollete are alike in the fact that they really don't care what anyone else thinks. I can get my feelings hurt. I wish I was more like them in that.

Stormynights wrote:Avi and mollete are alike in the fact that they really don't care what anyone else thinks.

I would beg to differ. IMO Avi is extremely sensitive about how people see him as he reflects on his life and legacy and deals with his mortality.

Sludge wrote:

SleepyToo2 wrote:Because of sleep apnea they may not necessarily reflect the normal opinions of the poster!

I wish people would stop saying that.

First of all, most of the apnea here is effectively treated; and

There are no excuses for one's behavior (good or bad). You're responsible for your actions no matter what.

When a drunk driver kills a kid, do they say "Hey that's OK cause I was drunk!"

Everybody's got some cross to bear, so stop whining. When you say something, you own it, and that's it.

Man up!

Actions are very different from opinions, in my opinion. Sure, we "own" our words, but remember that "sticks and stones can hurt my bones, but words can never hurt me" unless I choose to let them hurt me. That choice can certainly be a challenge for some people, while others need to take a second (or third) look at what they are saying to see whether it is getting too personal. I admit I do not always do that, for which I apologize.

By the way, when it comes to opinions, how does anyone know that their apnea is "effectively treated"? Does an AHI less than 5 prove it is being effectively treated? There may be other markers that we should be using that would give a better picture of effective treatment. We can still be cognitively affected, even though our AHI is low. As such, some of the controls on brain activity may not be as good as they could be - is that my fault? How can I correct that? Do I even recognize that I have a problem unless someone tells me? Will my sleep doc consider that is part of the "treatment" he/she should be providing? If the sleep doc is not the appropriate specialist to see, who should I see? What do I do if, like the OP on this thread, has no or inadequate insurance and can't afford to see another specialist? Or cannot afford to keep taking the pharmaceutical products that get prescribed as the only "cure" for what ails me?

I love this board because it is a great place for whining. It may be that there is good reason for the whining, and one or more of the many wonderful people on this board will help the "whiner." Long may that continue. Opinions are opinions, but sometimes they become accepted knowledge because there is something there that works. I hope people will continue to express opinions here!

SleepyToo2 wrote:By the way, when it comes to opinions, how does anyone know that their apnea is "effectively treated"? Does an AHI less than 5 prove it is being effectively treated?

Well, (IMO) "sort of". One needs criteria to scientifically approach these issues, otherwise, the previously mentioned (unfounded) "opinions" will direct treatment and no progress can be made (people will ignore established clinical guidelines because all they understand is AHI and leaks, and if one is not "feeling better", then clearly it must be that one of those two things is sub-optimal).

Further, a scientific approach must be scientific. In the above discussion I (playing off your statement) said "most of the apnea here is effectively treated" (and I think that is accurate). However, then you turn around and say, "Well, AHI less than..."

But I did not say AHI, I said AI. AHI might need a closer look, and certainly RDI may need an even closer look. Apneas are fairly straightforward, hypopneas a little less so, and RERAs,,, ahh, RERAs.....

Anyway, defining parameters is essential to know when to start searching for something else. Normal-appearing parameters beg to expand the search to other areas. There's a heckuva lot more to sleep than AHI and leaks.

Sludge wrote:

SleepyToo2 wrote:By the way, when it comes to opinions, how does anyone know that their apnea is "effectively treated"? Does an AHI less than 5 prove it is being effectively treated?

Well, (IMO) "sort of". One needs criteria to scientifically approach these issues, otherwise, the previously mentioned (unfounded) "opinions" will direct treatment and no progress can be made (people will ignore established clinical guidelines because all they understand is AHI and leaks, and if one is not "feeling better", then clearly it must be that one of those two things is sub-optimal).

Further, a scientific approach must be scientific. In the above discussion I (playing off your statement) said "most of the apnea here is effectively treated" (and I think that is accurate). However, then you turn around and say, "Well, AHI less than..."

But I did not say AHI, I said AI. AHI might need a closer look, and certainly RDI may need an even closer look. Apneas are fairly straightforward, hypopneas a little less so, and RERAs,,, ahh, RERAs.....

Anyway, defining parameters is essential to know when to start searching for something else. Normal-appearing parameters beg to expand the search to other areas. There's a heckuva lot more to sleep than AHI and leaks.

While looking into medical research I have noted such things as “heart rate variability” which can show “sub clinical micro events” of the sleep apnea character. On my own journey I have learned that ventilatory instability can wreck your sleep. CPAP pressure tends to increase ventilatory instability.

The research on CPAP usability – well – when you can find good objective long term data on that the story is simply sad.

With my AHI under 2 for a couple of years now and with learning how to deal with ventilatory instability I would call my treatment greatly improved over ten years of diligent effort on my part.

I would also have to say that I have a long way to go to pure restful consistent sleep!

“Pugsy's aliens” seem to be familiar to all.

Simply I do believe that those here are “ahead of the pack” in terms of the treatment quality that they enjoy. I also believe that no one here or anywhere else is well treated for Sleep Apnea.

While I was in transitional housing I purchased a pulse oximeter. Not for me. It was so I could help some of those living near me to get treatment for the Sleep Apnea I believed I did observe. I convinced six to wear it and all six had very significant desaturations. A year later none of the six had gotten treatment. I learned that the denial stage is resistant to facts.

Probably some of them have tried CPAP by this point. I did convince some others to get treatment. Of the three I remember one brightened up tremendously. The others struggled tremendously.

From my own observation and considering the nature of the brain damage done by Sleep Apnea I do believe that about a third of those homeless are significantly affected by Sleep Apnea. I do hope to find good ways to help them. But right now the treatment needs a very diligent, very well trained, and highly experienced medical team to be effective. That is not what a homeless person is likely to find available.

So what can we do for them???

My ex husband has a brother and nephew that are both homeless. My heart breaks for both of them and I really care for them but I can't help them. Drugs and alcohol have destroyed their lives. I would not dare let them in my home. I do wish I could help but I really don't know how. You can't give them money. You can't give them anything nice or they would just sell it. I just pray for them and that is all.

Stormynights wrote:My ex husband has a brother and nephew that are both homeless. My heart breaks for both of them and I really care for them but I can't help them. Drugs and alcohol have destroyed their lives. I would not dare let them in my home. I do wish I could help but I really don't know how. You can't give them money. You can't give them anything nice or they would just sell it. I just pray for them and that is all.

This is why we have Missions and other similar works of charity.

However, we tend to neglect them.

Most Mission style works tend to “promote from within”. The people who are homeless are already doing the majority of the work it takes to keep the mission going. So from that stream of people the administration of the mission tends to eventually come. The problem is that in order to help people move from where they are to where they need to go to become as independent as possible you need to have someone at the helm who has enough knowledge and proven success to be able to help them determine what the real problems are (drugs and alcohol are symptoms of problems) to enable them to solve them.

So cozy up with a mission style work of your familiarity (religion and/or philosophy wise) and help them succeed with their mission.

Work against oppressive attitudes in yourself and others as you do so. No homeless person needs a heavier load!!!

Work hard with yourself to become your best self. Everyone needs a good example!!!

Be the best friend that you can be. Sometimes coffee is a great start.

I have tried on many occasions to give free haircuts to the homeless. I was very surprised that I couldn't find a place to do that. Now I am not able. I have taken blankets and coats to places that I knew homeless people hung out and left them on cold nights.

I don't think my heart isn't open to helping but I spent years attempting to help these two individuals and I got used up. They need more than I can offer.

Stormynights wrote:I have tried on many occasions to give free haircuts to the homeless. I was very surprised that I couldn't find a place to do that. Now I am not able. I have taken blankets and coats to places that I knew homeless people hung out and left them on cold nights.

I don't think my heart isn't open to helping but I spent years attempting to help these two individuals and I got used up. They need more than I can offer.

I like you am worn out.

The likely many years (decades?) of unknown untreated Severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea with Extreme Hypoxia took a lot out of me to begin with. Then, as I am crawling out of that hole, to be robbed, beaten, and stabbed was simply tough. But frankly the hard part was not all of that it was the constant oppressive prejudice from others that really hurt.

Frankly there seems to be a portion of our population to which the oppression of the homeless is an irresistible enticement. We have seen many examples of that expressed right here in this thread.

While my heart is still with the missions my eyes are on preventing people from needing to go there.

I think I became sick for several preventable reasons:

There was too much pollution in my environment.

I ate too much processed food (I did not eat well).

I did not pursue an active lifestyle.

I undervalued human relationships.

Right now I am working on getting better myself. I hope I find strength to prevent others from needing shelter and to help those in shelter.