My new approach - feedback requested

Yes Kaiagram it makes sense because I am a buddhist and meditate (well not much lately as I seem to fall asleep while doing it) and counting breathes is part of a regular mediation that I do. I wasn't counting my breaths so that I would fall asleep. I was counting my breaths so as to be attentive to my breath and try to be focused on that and not the mask and to be in the moment instead of worrying about falling asleep.

jjmahern wrote:Yes Kaiagram it makes sense because I am a buddhist and meditate (well not much lately as I seem to fall asleep while doing it) and counting breathes is part of a regular mediation that I do. I wasn't counting my breaths so that I would fall asleep. I was counting my breaths so as to be attentive to my breath and try to be focused on that and not the mask and to be in the moment instead of worrying about falling asleep.

Ah, that's right, you mentioned earlier about meditation -- very cool. Behind you all the way.

I listen to audiobooks as I'm falling asleep. If you get a subscription at audible.com they can be very reasonably priced. The narrator reading the words lulls me to sleep. And it helps me get lost in the story so that I don't "think" too much.

I've been on trazadone since before cpap. I forgot to take it the other night and was miserable all night.

jjmahern wrote:Well I didn't take anything to sleep last night and gave myself an hour on the machine from 9:30 to 10:30, but no sleep. So then I gave myself another hour without the machine and no sleep.

Okay, I'm going to broach a subject which has been discussed on this forum ad nauseam,. By the above phrase: "didn't take anything", I assume you mean sleep aids. (Maybe I missed something cuz it seems like you've got several threads running at once) It's difficult to just quit sleep meds in very short period of time, whether they are Z-drugs, benzos or opiate based substances. This can be a dangerous decision. The general recognized method is to eliminate them from your system by tapering off gradually. I had to do that with my sleep meds and it took about 2 1/2 weeks (I know, that seems like forever ) The general consensus is one month.

That being said, if you can manage 'cold turkey', more power to you... however I haven't heard too many success stories from people trying the cold turkey method, largely because the way they hook into the brain's neuro-receptors is very insidious. Sleeplessness is usually the result, not to mention depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts. Tip: Search this forum for "taper off" and you will find some useful info. AS HARD AS IT IS TO BELIEVE, YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST PERSON ON THIS FORUM TO DO THIS. I wish you good luck getting the sleep you so desire!

Do I need to do that if I have only been taking the ambien occasionally and usually only a half a pill and it is only the last five days that I've taken them in a row and only one night a whole one?

kaiasgram wrote:

jjmahern wrote:I was reading a book for most of it and laying and trying to count my breaths to help fall asleep for the rest.

A little fine tuning suggestion to take or leave as you see fit... Counting your breaths to help fall asleep might be counter to what you're trying to do, because it could too easily get you focused on the hoped-for outcome and pull you back into the struggle and frustration. The spirit of your new approach is focusing on your process, as I understand it, not the outcome, at least not right now. For now, if you go to bed at the time you've commited to and follow the plan you've created, then you have succeeded regardless of whether or not you fall asleep on (or even off) the machine. Of course the ultimate goal is being able to fall asleep and sleep well on the machine, but I'm thinking a shorter term goal of just following your new plan and staying relaxed with it would be best for 'Phase 1' so to speak.

If counting helps you to relax your mind and body while you're doing it, then do continue -- just try to stay in the present moment with it and not get into anticipation of an outcome with it. I hope this makes sense!

Best wishes.

When I can't fall asleep, I intentionally try to keep my eyes open. I pick a spot in the room and stare at it, trying to keep my eyes open. Sounds crazy but it works for me.
Obviously, don't pick the time on the alam clock to stare at. Stare at the chosen spot and try to make your breathing really shallow, very relaxed, try to keep staring at the spot. Must be reverse psychology...lol.

Sorry when I said occasionally I mean over the last two months

jjmahern wrote:Do I need to do that if I have only been taking the ambien occasionally and usually only a half a pill and it is only the last five days that I've taken them in a row and only one night a whole one?

I doubt there's any reason to do a taper off if you only use them occasionally. 1/2 a pill five nights in a row shouldn't be enough to cause an issue if you don't take it.
I took 10mg for a couple weeks, realized it didn't do a thing for me (I have sleep maintenance insomnia, frequent waking) and just stopped taking it with no ill effect.

It helped me fall asleep faster but falling asleep isn't usually an issue for me, staying asleep is.

jjmahern wrote:Do I need to do that if I have only been taking the ambien occasionally and usually only a half a pill and it is only the last five days that I've taken them in a row and only one night a whole one?

I'm not a doctor but I should think that cutting the pills in smaller pieces over the period of a week would be adequate. You mentioned, in another thread, taking anti-depressants, so that adds another level of complexity to your strategy. Maybe it's time to mention your various meds and whatever plans you have when you go in for your next doctor appt, which you mentioned in a previous thread is coming up soon.

I'm so pleased to hear you are are asking some hard questions... I always see this realization as a big turning point to achieving success... you can be proud of that!

just a thought - I use a guided meditation sleep CD, it has a physical relaxation section, mental relaxation mediation and then music.
I would be happy to send to send you a copy electonically.

I use a homeopathic "sleep spray" when I have trouble falling asleep, it works for me.
http://www.bachflower.com/RescueSleep.htm

Good luck

I think I would take 1/2 for a few nites (maybe four) ... then 1/2 every other nite for a few nites... then off. I don't think you have to do a big deal taper, but slowly is the better way to go.

jjmahern wrote:In order not to be so tired that I try to harm myself or lose my job, I've decided a new approach to my cpap. I will go to bed at the same time every night and put it on. I will read and/or try to go to sleep. I will give myself an hour to fall asleep with the machine on. If I do fall asleep, wonderful. If I don't, I will take it off and let myself try to sleep without it without any guilt or negativity or worry. This way even if I can't fall asleep with it, at least ill have some chance if getting some sleep so I can get up and work in the morning. I will not go to bed thinking I will or won't be who to sleep with it but I won't kick myself if I can't. Doesn't that seem like a reasonable solution? Just trying to make it so that I'm giving it a real go but I'm also allowing myself to sleep without it if I need to for my own sanity. What do you guys think?

I think you have a wonderful attitude and that if you keep that optimism success will be yours.

lorraineg57 wrote:When I can't fall asleep, I intentionally try to keep my eyes open. I pick a spot in the room and stare at it, trying to keep my eyes open. Sounds crazy but it works for me.
Obviously, don't pick the time on the alam clock to stare at. Stare at the chosen spot and try to make your breathing really shallow, very relaxed, try to keep staring at the spot. Must be reverse psychology...lol.

I often set myself an objective of watching the whole of a familiar hour long video - lying comfortably in bed with the lights out and my APAP on. I rarely see more than the opening segment.

pats wrote:

lorraineg57 wrote:When I can't fall asleep, I intentionally try to keep my eyes open. I pick a spot in the room and stare at it, trying to keep my eyes open. Sounds crazy but it works for me.
Obviously, don't pick the time on the alam clock to stare at. Stare at the chosen spot and try to make your breathing really shallow, very relaxed, try to keep staring at the spot. Must be reverse psychology...lol.

I often set myself an objective of watching the whole of a familiar hour long video - lying comfortably in bed with the lights out and my APAP on. I rarely see more than the opening segment.

I think the idea of wanting to stay awake puts you to sleep...lol. The more I try to stare and not blink, the more I blink and close my eyes, eventually they stay closed.

Hi JJ.

This thread is very inspiring and I applaud your new approach to my own sleep and therapy. You have a wins win strategy about it JJ, that's awesome! As stated in the previous thread the book that I had recommended to you by Krakow, he addresses how to taper off from sleep aids. I have to tell you JJ, by reading this thread you have inspired me to once again begin my own tapering off the zolpidem, and I started last night. Since you have not spent a long time on the sleep aid, I would do what others have recommended. However, for me I will have to take a much different and longer approach. For me, starting last night, I've begun take a “sliver” at night. This will continue for about 1 to 2 weeks every night, then for the next two weeks I will miss one night, then the next two weeks two will be skipped, etc. That is how someone in my situation does the tapering off process. That's what this form is all about JJ, inspiring one another to take a different approach towards our sleep and our therapy as you have now done for me. When I was getting counsel from the therapist about this, one thing she recommended to me is to exercise every day in the early evening so that way I will be tired enough to sleep that night. I am not saying that is your situation, but that was something that I had to do.
As for sleep apps on the smart phone, whether it be a Droid or iPhone, there is quite a selection out there, you just have to pick the ones out that will work for you the best. Fort each smart phone, I will list out the apps that I have used that have worked out for me regarding sounds for sleep:

Droid:
Sleepy Time Lite (recommended by another forum member)
Relax and Sleep

iPhone:
Alarm Clock Pro – You can listen to audio books or your favorite music to lull yourself to sleep
aSleep – You’ll especially love this one. It has sounds for mediation
Nature Sound – Meditation sounds
Relaxing Sounds of Nature - Meditation sounds
The Nap Fairy (I especially love this app for taking naps, yay!)
Relax Melodies: A White Noise…. (I don’t the latter part of the app name). Recently they updated this app. I’m not sure how it’s supposed to work now. No meditation sounds, zen sounds though. I like the zen sounds.

You may laugh, last Saturday I spent over an hour trying to figure out which app I used and attempt to turn it off. So, make sure you remember that night which app you used for sleep, or nap.

I believe it was on Facebook that someone recommended a video that was so inspiring yet it was hard for me to watch. It is about a man that was born without four limbs and the things that he can do is simply amazing. It has taught me to never give up on myself. I would sincerely recommend that you Google the words “Attitude is Altitude” on the Internet and watch the video that he has on YouTube. He also has his own webpage. As stated before JJ, you have inspired me once again to begin tapering off to sleep aids. I am so very proud of you in your new approach. You are now aspiring to sleep nirvana. That’s it JJ, we all help inspire one another toward our therapy + sleep += Sleep Nirvana.

Starlette

NOTE: I initially dictated this on my Iphone. Forgive me if some parts look rather squirrely. I did my best to proofread it.