OT: Sort of -- Back Pain while asleep

Hello. About 9 months ago I woke up with extreme lower to mid back pain that seems to almost radiate around to my stomach. It almost hurts to breath and no matter which way I turn I can't get comfortable. It almost always happens after about 4-5 hours of sleep. I get up & walk around the house & it basically goes away after about 45 minutes to an hour, but for that hour it hurts something awful. By the time its time to go to work I feel great with no pain, then the process repeats again the next night. X-rays & MRI's don't really show anything & the ortho doc said to stretch & it should go away. I bought a new memory foam mattress- no help- & have tried many different sleeping surfaces with no luck. I've been to the chiropractor 5 times in 3 weeks and it may help a little but only the night of the adjustment. I'm 28 & in decent shape, I'm not a tri-athlete but not a couch potato either. Anyway- long story short- now that I'm using xpap it sucks to be getting deep sleep but only like 4-5 hours because of this extreme pain.
Also I've read post where people talk about pain after starting xpap because you use diaphragm muscles more but this pain started about 2 or 3 months before I got on the hose.
I know this is a CPAP forum but I figured since both issues deal with sleep maybe somebody might have some ideas of what is going on and/or what I might could do to help or maybe even someone having a similar experience.
Thanks in advance for any ideas and/or help.
Derek

You need to go back to your GP for a referral to either another orthopedic doctor, or a neurosurgeon - without a diagnosis there's no way to help and we certainly aren't MD's here... many people will have had similar pain but that's not the way for you to be diagnosed and there are many problems which the average person may not have ever heard of that could need attention... get it as soon as you can. Cpap is irrelevant as far as that goes.

I second what Julie says.
Only a doctor can figure out what's causing your back pain.
No sense waiting. You deserve relief.

Pain in other places is not good. A pinched nerve can screw up other organs. You can also do some serious damage to your back if your spine isn't quite right. Find a different doctor.

There are all kinds of things that can go wrong. Your chiropractor should have dealt with the most common already but they can make some problems worse.

If your doing this on the cheap because of lack of insurance or something, try a local traditional Chinese massage place with trained people. They do have about 1000 years of treating the pains of peasant farmers and some of their stuff works very well for some common problems if that is what you have. Their techniques can also make other problems worse.

Your spine is a balance of bone and soft bits and sometimes you can bend wrong and push them slightly out of where they should be. They also have a bunch of other muscles that can tighten up to help protect the spine but that reduces the flexibility. I've have been told I have a stiff lower back many times sore shoulders and a neck that wanted to tilt sometimes. I went to a Bowen therapy guy who pushed a spot on my spine just above the hips that caused something to pop and said that would fix it. He then worked on an area where disc was sore to help reduce the pain. When I asked about the areas higher in the spine he said it would fix its self since the lower problem shifted the spine slightly to the side and the rest was a reaction to that. That one treatment helped me more than the thousands I spent on other treatments.

I been having lower back pain for some 40 years. It started with a herniated disc, between L4 and L5. But always it went away by doing gym weights exercises. But when I was lifting something the wrong way the pain came back. Still, I followed the conservative approach of resting in bed for no more than 3 days and gradually resuming exercises. Over the years these episodes repeated over and over.

I started CPAPing 18 months ago. About 2 months ago my lower back started to ache again. So I went to to see an Orthopedist who deals with spines. We agreed that I should have an epidural steroid injection at the lumbar spine area, and within a couple of days I would start a physical therapy on my lower back. So, here I am after a month of PT. If I take a deep breath it pushes the spine backwards and it hurts. During the PT I am being stretched by a stretching machine for about 20 min. Afterwards, the PT massages the lumbar vertebrae to spread them apart so that the facets joints are not rubbing each other b/c of discs shrinkage and arthritis.

However, you at age of 28 should not have any these. I agree that you should hurry to visit an Orthopedist who deals with spines. If I was going to be operated on my spine, at that point, I would look for a Neurosurgeon.

For those interested see an X-Ray of my lower spine. I suffer from three problems:

1) Spinal Stenosis- narrowing of the spinal canal
2) Discs Shrinkage
3) Spondylolisthesis, where the L4 vertebra moved forward



p.s. you can also see the screws holding the cup of my right hip replacement

Or maybe see a gastroenterologist? I'm having a very similar pain, almost every night but especially on longer sleep nights. What seems to clear it up is the morning "constitutional" - and I don't hurt if I have a late-night constitutional.

The pain also seems to me to drop lower once I get standing up. That's also what makes me think it is more internal. Your gust slosh around and change places all the time, so much so that when I had appendicitis, it was missed because the pain was clear up at my solar plexus - which is also common with women as I understand.

Maybe TMI, but even with strong abs I have a big gut - my theory is that internal fat deposits have muscled everything out of their normal locations. I think I can even see them on the scan I had done when the appendix blew.

Yup, I have a CD with my cat-scan data on it. My surgeon was so tickled that I asked for it that he pulled out his cell phone right there & ordered imaging to make me a copy. The program on it shows a side view, fron view, then a series of slices (slices of me!) working from butt to mid-chest. Kewl!

ekubaskie wrote:Or maybe see a gastroenterologist? I'm having a very similar pain, almost every night but especially on longer sleep nights. What seems to clear it up is the morning "constitutional" - and I don't hurt if I have a late-night constitutional.
...
Yup, I have a CD with my cat-scan data on it. My surgeon was so tickled that I asked for it that he pulled out his cell phone right there & ordered imaging to make me a copy. The program on it shows a side view, fron view, then a series of slices (slices of me!) working from butt to mid-chest. Kewl!

You have cat scan photos and you use that as your icon?

The USDA recommended fiber is considered by many health nuts to be very low. They recommend 130 to 200 g of fiber a day. I'm not sure how that works since it means eating about 11 bowls of a high bran cereal a day. One of my mother's doctor said that the colon around where it bends at the top sometimes stops constricting the right way and only half of it constricts at a time causing all sorts of problems. His solution for that massive amounts of fiber for a day (as in only eat bran cereal for 3 meals) and then go on the colonoscopy prep diet the next day. He made the comment that the special clean out diet fixes more problems than he does.

For those interested see an X-Ray of my lower spine. I suffer from three problems:

1) Spinal Stenosis- narrowing of the spinal canal
2) Discs Shrinkage
3) Spondylolisthesis, where the L4 vertebra moved forward

Ouch - This looks alot like my wife's back pre surgery. She just had a L5-S1 fusion. I wish you all the luck with the back injections and therapy. It did not work for her, but everyone is different.

One thought regarding CPAP and sleep, I wake up with a numb arm from time to time, I talked to my sleep doc about this; she said when you are on CPAP you tend to sleep deeper and move much less. You can end up compressing a nerve or blood flow during sleep. She asked me how old my mattress was, when I told her 12 years old - she told me to but a good new bed. With the new bed + CPAP = heaven and no more numb arms.

I sympathize. It could be something as simple as gas or aerophagia. They can cause terrible pain- as bad as a heart attack. If you do a search on aerophagia you may find some remedies that helped other people. Are you passing gas or burping while you're up walking around ? Good luck, this is a bummer. Definitely on topic. Good question.

-tim wrote: You have cat scan photos and you use that as your icon?

"That"?

I use that as my avatar everywhere.

There is a chocolate shop here in town (http://www.moderndwellers.com) where I have been known to spend a little time. Just a little. And a little $$... Handmade truffles in interesting and tasty combinations like garlic-caramel, berbere - a kind of African version of curry powder, smoked salmon, anchovy, Thai curry, Margarita, and quite a few more. I only eat a half-dozen or so a year, but I take several dozen to my annual CAD convention to treat my friends there. Our real weakness is their mochas - the silky that will knock your socks off, or the spicy Mayan that will knock more off. They're made not from powders or syrups but from melted dark chocolate, a touch of cream, and spices - very low in sugar but thick and... luxurious is a good word. I love the plain chocolate without added sugar (silky); my wife Pillow loves the added chili spices in the Mayan.

Anyway, the place is hooked into the local art scene, and one of the chocolatiers did a play with finger puppets for First Friday - a downtown Anchorage art walk done on the first Friday of each month. Most of the characters were customers at the shop. Pillow & I were proud to be enough well-liked to be among the spoofed. They did a great job of "getting" me as a puppet, so when the "cast" were on display for a few weeks I made sure to take some photos. And so, there is my avatar.

MEANWHILE... the software for the cat-scan CD is designed to keep the data inaccessible for other uses. The images are embedded in the playback program code, and may be encrypted. Without special software, the only way I figure I could extract individual pics is my doing screen dumps. Not impossible, but it's just never been worth the effort. Too busy hanging out on forums.

There are tons of different causes for back pain, so you will need a doctor to figure it out. My problem is a pinched nerve, caused my tight back muscles. I don't relax very well, so over time, the muscle clamps down on my sciatic nerve. If I use a massager on it a coupe times a week, I can usually keep from getting the pain. When I forget, or I do something stupid that makes it worse, I can take a muscle relaxer which will help the muscle release the nerve. I don't actually need pain medication. For short term pain, such as waking up with back pain, I will use an ice pack.

But my pain is only one type of pain with one cause. There are so many other problems that could be causing your pain.

And with the topic of scans, I had a CT scan of my head last year because of recurring vertigo. My ENT wanted to see it, so I got a copy on CD. They are jpg files. I have no idea what any of them mean, but I do have a CD of my brain

zoocrewphoto wrote: And with the topic of scans, I had a CT scan of my head last year because of recurring vertigo. My ENT wanted to see it, so I got a copy on CD. They are jpg files. I have no idea what any of them mean, but I do have a CD of my brain

There's only a couple files total on the CD I got - the autostart stuff and the app. The pics are of my torso - which being a guy means somewhat north of my brains.

Thanks guys. I decided today that I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get to the bottom of this problem. I called my primary doctor today and she is out until next week but her assistant called in an order to start physical therapy in the mean time. The specialist around here require a referral so I figure some physical therapy in the mean time can't hurt. Hate to talk bad about people but I think the ortho specialist I saw earlier in the year was kind of "slack." It was a clinic at a teaching hospital so I probably didn't really get the needed attention. If my family doctor doesn't have any ideas on a diagnosis, hopefully I can get a referral to a good spinal specialist. At this point I would basically give somebody the keys to my car to fix this 4am pain.
Thanks again for the advice.
Derek

Good luck and please keep us informed. I'm certainly hoping your answers give me a couple clues for my own wakeups. 4:30 this morning, which actually made last night better than most: 6 full hours from zonk-out to then. I felt quite pleased and ouch at the same time.

i vote for a visit to a neurologist, but get an old one.

my experience with a young neurologist was that he knew everything and every next test or mri was going to be the answer. finally he decided i had bad spinal stenosis in the neck and needed surgery asap. he referred me to a young neurosurgeon buddy that luckily didn't take tricare. tricare then referred me to an older neurosurgeon that said i didn't need surgery and in fact didn't have spinal stenosis. i then requested a new neurologist and again got an older one. he said my problems were not neurological and sorta laghed when he said to stay away from neurologists, i don't need them.