Interesting and informative O2 recording

DrPepper00 · Post by **DrPepper00** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:20 pm

I put the grandbaby down for a nap and she wanted me to rest with her. I didn't want to mask up because she had never seen it before. Besides, I got the nifty O2 meter and haven't used it without the mask for a "baseline" measurement. All went well for the first part of the nap and then the dream began. I kept dreaming that I was asleep and suffocating, waking up, going back to sleep and suffocating again. The O2 line tells it all!

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:32 pm

Yep -- you've got it! Your desalts aren't awful but they are not where you would want them to be, IMHO.

Mindy

MaxDarkside · Post by **MaxDarkside** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:35 pm

I dare say you probably should not nap w/o "masking up" !! Those look like real de-sats, not a device problem. And in comparison to my desats during REM, well, you WIN!

DrPepper00 · Post by **DrPepper00** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:17 pm

Scary looking, isn't it. My O2 was so low during my sleep study that they put me on O2 after a few hours and wouldn't do the split study. When I am using the CPAP, the O2 doesn't drop below 88 except when the finger slips. I am a believer in CPAP, wish I had been diagnosed sooner.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:42 pm

DrPepper00 wrote:I put the grandbaby down for a nap and she wanted me to rest with her. I didn't want to mask up because she had never seen it before. Besides, I got the nifty O2 meter and haven't used it without the mask for a "baseline" measurement. All went well for the first part of the nap and then the dream began. I kept dreaming that I was asleep and suffocating, waking up, going back to sleep and suffocating again. The O2 line tells it all!

It would be more scary for baby to wake up next to corpse then see you with a mask on.

ems · Post by **ems** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:44 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:
DrPepper00 wrote:I put the grandbaby down for a nap and she wanted me to rest with her. I didn't want to mask up because she had never seen it before. Besides, I got the nifty O2 meter and haven't used it without the mask for a "baseline" measurement. All went well for the first part of the nap and then the dream began. I kept dreaming that I was asleep and suffocating, waking up, going back to sleep and suffocating again. The O2 line tells it all!

It would be more scary for baby to wake up next to corpse then see you with a mask on.

Arrrrrrrrg!!

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Dr Pepper,

When I first looked at your post I didn't see that desat that went down to 70%. That is definitely bad! The rest of it was passable but I would be concerned with that 70%. Think about it this way: low o2 sat = no organs in the body are getting enough oxygen. That can wreck all kinds of havoc. I'm reasonably happy when my desats don't go below 90% but would be happier still if all above 94%. I'm not convinced that my pulse-ox is sensitive and accurate enough to discriminate between, for example, 96% and 98% but the trends are useful.

Mindy

Lizistired · Post by **Lizistired** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:29 pm

That's a good reason to wear your mask.
Mine has been looking like that lately but from a baseline of 88-90, and no events recorded! Leaks are worse too so I'm hoping it's due to tree pollen and will subside soon. Fingers crossed.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:07 pm

Lizistired wrote:That's a good reason to wear your mask.
Mine has been looking like that lately but from a baseline of 88-90, and no events recorded! Leaks are worse too so I'm hoping it's due to tree pollen and will subside soon. Fingers crossed.

Hi Liz,

I hope it will subside soon, too! Even though I've lost a good deal of weight and my sleep apnea has improved, I stay ever vigilant to make sure that my O2 levels stay at a reasonable level. To me that's more important than the number of events -- although there is, of course, a definite relationship.

Mindy

Papit · Post by **Papit** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:59 pm

DrPepper00, I wouldn't be awfully upset if I had your pulse-ox graphs. I had an appointment a couple days ago with my sleep doc to talk about apneas and O2 desaturation and, although he's watching mine closely, he said a few occasional short duration incidents into the 80's is not at all uncommon and not a reason for immediate alarm. On the other hand, longer durations, especially if it got down to 80 (a number I asked about) or lower, would certainly be alarming. So I'm not exactly sanguine about desaturation and it is something that's been on my worry list lately.

But in your case, based on a first try with the pulse-ox, with two apparently brief episodes to 83 and 85, when you indicate you were having a nightmare, and the rest of the nap in the 90 area and above, the picture doesn't look so bad to me. That last dip to 70 in my opinion (uneducated as it is) can be disregarded because it occurred at the very end of the session when you removed the oximeter and interrupted the recording. It can therefore be thought of as an extraneous "artifact," if it's thought of at all; and most folks here would not pay much, if any, attention to it. Now if it occurred in the midst of the session, occurred more than once and lasted in duration rather than being momentary, that would be a different story and something to see your doc about.

You might ask him, if you see him for this, whether the numerous rapid up and down gyrations of your O2 graph might well be accounted for by your bad dreaming experience. Maybe it's normal when you're having a very frightening nightmare. Make sense?

DrPepper00 wrote:I put the grandbaby down for a nap and she wanted me to rest with her. I didn't want to mask up because she had never seen it before. Besides, I got the nifty O2 meter and haven't used it without the mask for a "baseline" measurement. All went well for the first part of the nap and then the dream began. I kept dreaming that I was asleep and suffocating, waking up, going back to sleep and suffocating again. The O2 line tells it all!

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Hmmmm - good point, Papit -- and also pulse rate didn't really spike up with those desats. It's still something to watch, IMHO, to make sure it isn't a regular thing.

Mindy

DrPepper00 · Post by **DrPepper00** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:09 pm

This was just my first time using the oxymeter without the Cpap. Rest assured that I always sleep with the machine. 7 1/2 hrs a night. Every reading I have done with the machine stayed above 93%. Before CPAP, I had the suffocating dream frequently. Not anymore. I love my machine.

torontoCPAPguy · Post by **torontoCPAPguy** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:56 pm

I am not a doctor but have studied OSA closely for almost three years now and I can tell you without hesitation the following:
(a) ANYTHING below 90% SpO2 is RESPIRATORY DISTRESS and paramedics are trained to administer oxygen (straight oxygen!) immediately and ventilate if necessary without delay. I can confirm this as I have been there and have the T shirt - spent three weeks on full life support following.
(b) YOUR desats are significant and do not let ANYONE (including MD's) tell you otherwise. If you have an MD tell you otherwise I would seek a second opinion from an MD specializing in respirology immediately.
(c) I hear you saying that you monitor your SpO2 with just the CPAP running and there are no desats and this is great news. MANY of those afflicted with OSA never really know the extent of their affliction. I had to troubleshoot MYSELF over several months, finally coughing up for an oxygen concentrator and infusing 4-5L/M of O2 into my CPAP/APAP airline in order to keep my SpO2 above 90% all night, including and especially through L4 and REM sleep.
(d) My situation was slightly more sinister in that my bout with H1N1 and life support damaged my lungs to the extent that their capacity is somewhat less than 70%. To compound this comedy of afflictions it turns out that I also have Atrial Fibrillation which is a topic too involved to get into here. Suffice it to say that WITHOUT the AFib I probably would have been just fine with just CPAP/APAP.
(e) HOWEVER, lungs operating at 65% plus aFib causing poor oxygenation of the blood and circulation of said blood = low SpO2 = high risk of massive stroke (and there are all types of strokes, some that are not even readily apparent).

If what you are saying is true in that your SpO2 is above 90% consistently with just CPAP, you are likely not at the point of having aFib and I would heartily recommend that you and anyone else that reads this post in the same circumstances maintain nominal CPAP/APAP therapy or face the consequences of desats, which include things like aFib, diabetes, and so on. AVOID THE PROGRESSION. I did not have the chance but for the ignorance of the MD's I was involved with, who were some of the best regarded practitioners in their fields.

Just to reinforce my point..... I was in hospital for much of December and was started on a drug that is not generally on the market yet called TIKOSYN. A VERY VERY potent antiarrhythmia drug for aFib. I am on the max dosage of 500 MICROgrams b.i.d. To put that in perspective: 80% of the drug is urinated within two hours and the remained 20% is available. That would be 100 MICROgrams. Several doses could be placed under the head of a pin. I have to have my kidney function monitored constantly and watch what I ingest while taking this drug. BUT.... BUT! I am now in normal sinus rhythm, my heart pumping well oxygenated blood to my organs, etc. My SpO2 levels now hit 99% when I am active or when I am wearing my APAP gear with oxygen infused. And my SpO2 remains above 90% even without the O2 now. Marvellous but I still keep not one but TWO oxygen concentrators with me at all times. Even when I travel, which I seldom do these days .... at least until we have some assurance that I am back 'in the groove' and the issue(s) are resolved. I would not even dream of sleeping without my APAP gear.

My parting advice to you would simply be to be proactive where you can and to take SpO2 readings every night for, say, a week out of every month at least. Compare them to the data out of your APAP machine. Desats under 90% are an urgent situation regardless of what ANYONE tells you. Even momentary desats. They indicate something is happening (duh?) and any doctor that says 'don't worry' needs a good swift kick in the arse. Change doctors immediately.

If you are able to address the root cause(s) do so. Otherwise, like you say, "I love my CPAP machine". I have one, a spare and have just purchased one for travelling as well.

Wishing you good health.

Murray

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:56 am

Murray,

Thank you for your detailed and very informative post! You've obviously "been there" and your advice seems quite sound to me. Even though my sleep apnea has improved since weight loss, I still "love my machine"! I have no intention of ever going off it unless they come up with a better solution (which probably won't happen in my lifetime).

Mindy

Lizistired · Post by **Lizistired** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:06 am

Here is an example from the other night. NO EVENTS. Good reason to check your O2 periodically.
I gotta get a full face mask. I woke up this morning with the mask disconnected at the short hose and a severe headache, sinuses clogged. AHI=0.3
I put my 50H on that I keep set in the alarm mode at 88% and tried to go back to sleep without the mask and keep my mouth open.
I'm going to set the alarm on my 50F for awhile, until this pollen season is over. Back to the neti pot, vicks and sudafed
Here is another example in an earlier thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73349&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... lizistired

Interesting and informative O2 recording

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