Difference Between

I've been trying to decide what the difference between the Swift FX and the Aeiomed Headrest is.

The FX is a very popular mask... something I don't understand, because I hate it. Its only redeeming quality, as far as I am concerned is that I can put my glasses on easily with the FX, whereas I have to remove the Headrest to do so.

Since the Headrest is no longer being made (I have five in stock), I thought I would try the FX and the local Apria, who is tired of my demands for a mask they don't want to carry, leaped on the idea of furnishing me something they did carry.

If not for Pad-a-Cheek's barrel cover and side strap covers, the thing would have gone in the trash after the second night. (I gave it two nights: one night to figure out if I liked it or not, and the second night to figure out why.) In order to keep the d@mn thing from leaking, those horrible flat pillows have to be mashed up against my nose. (I did visit JanKnitz's site on fitting.) Without the Pad-a-Cheek cover, the barrel burned my nose. Without the Pad-a-Cheek side covers, the straps left horrible marks on my face.

I said "screw it" and went back to my Headrest.

Except... my beloved Sunny-girl has developed mitral valve disease and has not been doing well. She almost died when the cardiologist jacked her meds up too high for her poor body to tolerate. We have it mostly under control now, but the last 4-6 weeks hasn't been good, with Sunny waking in the middle of the night with a panic fit and barking. I'd have to sit up and gather her up, and calm her down, and get her back to sleep. At one point, she was getting other meds every four hours.

So, since I needed my glasses for all this, I shifted back to the Swift FX, since the hose was a little longer, and I could put on my glasses, do what I needed to do, and then just drop back to sleep.

Been wearing the FX for about a week, and had commented to my husband that maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought. Kind of nice to mask up, slip my glasses back on, read for a few minutes, and then turn out the light and put the glasses away, instead having to push the Headrest up on my forehead to read, and then pull it back down for sleep.

My AHI has been about the same. The vent rate on the FX is higher than the one on the Headrest, but I've had my usual mostly flat line, and the rate was well within normal for the mask and my pressures.

Except... I've started being awakened with severe hip and muscle pain part way through the night, at a point between when Sunny wakes me.

I was diagnosed with apnea because of that hip and muscle pain. With proper treatment, it went away -- the pain was due to desaturations.

At first, I assumed the pain was because of the disrupted sleep. But the last two nights, I switched back to my Headrest. I was still awakened twice to give Sunny her meds. But I was NOT awakened by hip and muscle pain.

Clearly, despite no apparent change in AHI, and stable vent rates, the Headrest gives me effective therapy, and the Swift FX does not.

So what the dickens is the difference between the two masks?

And I wonder what mask I should try next?

Very interesting...

I don't want to cause you any discomfort, but for the sake of science it would be interesting if you would consider switching back to the Swift FX to see if the pain comes back again, or how long it takes for it to return.

In theory, if you don't have leaks, you should be getting the same therapy with both masks.

Another consideration is if there have been any weather changes during all of this...

Most puzzling...

HoseCrusher wrote:Very interesting...

I don't want to cause you any discomfort, but for the sake of science it would be interesting if you would consider switching back to the Swift FX to see if the pain comes back again, or how long it takes for it to return.

In theory, if you don't have leaks, you should be getting the same therapy with both masks.

Another consideration is if there have been any weather changes during all of this...

Most puzzling...

I will consider switching back AFTER the Fourth of July. For the sake of science. This weekend (2nd of July) is my 35th Wedding Anniversary. For some odd reason, I don't want to be stiff, sore, and aching for THAT. <wicked grin> I got PLANS!

The weather, throughout, has been pretty standard New Orleans summer weather: thunderstorms in the afternoon, sometimes lingering through early evening, hot and humid the rest of the time.

Hi Kyralinx

Me too I was using the Headrest for months with no problem at all until I started having pain in front tooth. Then I went back to the Swift FX for 2 weeks or so.

The first nights I had problems with my sleep because I could feel a very small leak which waked me up. The leak was not big enough to be registered as a leak but enough for my highly sensitive body to be disturbed. After a week I was able not to wake up but still each morning I felt I was not as rested as I used to be with the Headrest . I toke back the Headrest one night here and then to check if I was able to sleep better and I slept better but the tooth pain was back too. I was using the Headrest as is.

I finished decontructing the Headrest and put the Swifth FX aside and now I sleep sounder. If I use the FX I sleep without waking up but is not the same rest. The only thing I can say is that maybe my highly sensitive body feels the leaks and it produces a series of arousal and that's it I pass the night on a lighter sleep. Only a theory.

Rosie

Once again, very interesting...

OK, after scratching my head for awhile...

I use the Swift FX and have had many of the small hoses fail by splitting in the plastic membrane between the ribs. Perhaps a check of the small hoses is in order.

... back to scratching...

Have you tried the Swift LT for her? I also have leak problems with the Swift FX. I find the Swift LT for her to be more stable, with less leaks. You can wear your glasses with it on too!

rosacer wrote:The first nights I had problems with my sleep because I could feel a very small leak which waked me up. The leak was not big enough to be registered as a leak but enough for my highly sensitive body to be disturbed. After a week I was able not to wake up but still each morning I felt I was not as rested as I used to be with the Headrest . I toke back the Headrest one night here and then to check if I was able to sleep better and I slept better but the tooth pain was back too. I was using the Headrest as is.

Rosie,

I use a slightly decontructed Headrest -- I removed the rubber straps from it and replaced them with a Comfortlite 2 strap, connected at the front with a small piece of velcro. (No Hawthorne, I'm sorry, I haven't managed to get the pictures taken!)

But that's interesting about a leak that isn't enough of a leak to register with the machine, but is enough for your body to have a problem with it.

I haven't tried the Swift Light for Her for the simple reason that I don't want to get into that mess with poorly made nasal pillows that so many people have talked about on here.

Plus, I've done very well with both the CL2 and the Headrest, though I've come to prefer the Headrest because it's smaller and lighter than the CL2.

Kiralinx,

I deconstructed the Headrest as restedgal shows in her pictures. I sew the cushion's support to a strong elastic band ( 3/4 inch wide) and I sew velcro to each end. In that way I can adjust the tension around my head. I added the best of all, a thigh's leg around the cushion end /nostril to keep it closed enough to forbid leaks. If the tight's leg moves and the cushion leaks I feel like somebody is tickling around the nostrils and I wake up.

I was waking up some how dizzy, I put my oximeter (sleep with it on) and I had no desaturations at all so my only explanation is it should be very small leaks disturbing my sleep. I need to add that the average pressure of the night was higher (around 0.5 CMH2O) but not great leaks. As I told for a blessing or a curse I can sense a lot of things and I believe it could be the reason why a small leak of nothing can affect my sleep. But now I can use the Headrest and the FX is going to the closet again.

Ah yes, I noticed the double layer of the FX cushions get glue together with the lansino, I wonder if this is the cause of a bad sealing. I'm an active sleeper, some times I had real leaks if I moved while on my side because the cushion was squeezed by the straps pulling it. Any way, this life of hoses and masks is very interesting.

HoseCrusher wrote:OK, after scratching my head for awhile...

I use the Swift FX and have had many of the small hoses fail by splitting in the plastic membrane between the ribs. Perhaps a check of the small hoses is in order.

... back to scratching...

Given that I have this Beagle who has a fascination for my CPAP masks, regular checking for leaks on hoses is a priority in this household. In fact, when the aches started up again, the first thing I did was verify the lack of leaks. But even if Encore Viewer doesn't show significant leaks (ie, not out of a reasonable range for my pressures), I frequently feel as if the FX is leaking. Other times, I don't feel as if I'm getting enough air, even though I usually take small pillows, and I'm using mediums on the FX.

rosacer wrote:I deconstructed the Headrest as restedgal shows in her pictures. [snip] But now I can use the Headrest and the FX is going to the closet again.

I remember seeing RestedGal's pictures, but I don't remember where they were. Maybe, when I get around to shifting to a new Headrest, I'll consider further deconstructing my current one.

Yeah, after I do HoseCrusher's suggested experiment, I think the FX is going in the closet again.

Can't compare the two, but the comment that without the padding the swift FX leaves marks on your face is interesting.

I've used the Swift FX for a while, with no padding and I don't wake up with marks on my face. Also the barrel of the pillows does not touch my nose, but really sits quite a way below it. I'm wondering if you might have some adjustment too tight?

I find the mask works best if the over the head strap is quite loose, almost doing nothing. The back of the head strap I have adjusted so it is fairly firm and is using the elasticity in it to keep things taught.

Now you were saying you have to have it quite tight to stop leaks. I spent some time playing with the various sizes of pillows. Interestingly I found all of them would work, but the difference between them for me was how tight each had to be. I finally settled on the one requiring the least amount of tightening to work. Maybe try a different pillow to see if you can have the headgear fit more loosely and still not have leaks.

Of course you could have it adjusted perfectly and it's just your face shape is different to mine.

If tweaking the adjustments does not work, maybe the swift fx for her (which I think was a bit smaller) might be worth a try?

Having said all of the above, I can't see how adjusting the fitting of the mask when your results show there are no leak issues will help with hip pain.

Again I'm not familiar with the Aeiomed Headrest, but I'm wondering if there is something in the design of the mask or hose placement that means your sleeping brain is less inclined to want to roll or turn in your sleep so that you end up sleeping on the one side for longer periods of time than you do with the Aeiomed?

This was the case for me. Rather than "cuddling" the hose, I now have a little bit of overhead hose management (hose goes over the bedhead). The swivel on the FX means I can pretty much freely rotate underneath it without getting tangled. It also helps take a bit of the weight of the rather heavy piece of flexible hose. This in turn means I probably don't need the mask as tight too.

Here the links for deconstructed Headrest pictures

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62861&p=587388&hili ... ed#p587388

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65034&p=607178#p607178

I was afraid of not been able to use the Headrest after deconstruction but due to tooth pain I had no choice. It toke 3 tries and now is working good enough for the moment, the only thing is I need to find another material to use for the forehead support.

I put a piece of a kind of packing foam between the mask, my forehead and the elastic but it's too hot and makes a red mark on my skin. Then I added a double layer of fleece but it's not enough (I told you I'm so delicate ), last night I added two Kleenex sheet's folded several times and this morning I had no mark. I'll double again the fleece until get a good padding and then the decostruction will be a complete success.

Other than that small detail it's working. I need to repeat that it's no possible to have a good seal without the tight's leg in front of the cushion and attached in the back of the head with restedgal's special knot. And no, it doesn't slides over the hair it keeps in place over the elastic's junction in the back of the head. I'm very happy I had the courage to deconstruct it

Gerald? wrote:Can't compare the two, but the comment that without the padding the swift FX leaves marks on your face is interesting.

I've used the Swift FX for a while, with no padding and I don't wake up with marks on my face. Also the barrel of the pillows does not touch my nose, but really sits quite a way below it. I'm wondering if you might have some adjustment too tight?

The straps on the FX are so loose that if I roll over the thing slides off my head. Nonetheless, the pillows are so flat that in order to have them properly touching my nostrils, the barrel is mashed against my septum. Which is what I said -- not that I had it strapped tight.

If tweaking the adjustments does not work, maybe the swift fx for her (which I think was a bit smaller) might be worth a try?

I actually AM using the FX for Her. At least, it came with pink straps and cutesy useless pink side covers.

Having said all of the above, I can't see how adjusting the fitting of the mask when your results show there are no leak issues will help with hip pain.

The pain demonstrates that I am not getting effective therapy. According to the pain management doctor who diagnosed my apnea, disrupted sleep can lead to chronic pain, and correcting the sleep issues solves the pain problem. If I do not have pain with the CL2 or the Headrest, then I am getting effective therapy. If I do have pain with the Swift FX, then the Swift FX is not giving me effective therapy. QED.

Again I'm not familiar with the Aeiomed Headrest, but I'm wondering if there is something in the design of the mask or hose placement that means your sleeping brain is less inclined to want to roll or turn in your sleep so that you end up sleeping on the one side for longer periods of time than you do with the Aeiomed?

Actually, it's the reverse. I'm more apt to roll onto my back with the Swift FX because I loathe straps across my cheeks. But I can't stay on my back because of muscle spasms, so I roll back. With the Headrest, I stay comfortably on my side all night, occasionally changing to the other side.

This was the case for me. Rather than "cuddling" the hose, I now have a little bit of overhead hose management (hose goes over the bedhead). The swivel on the FX means I can pretty much freely rotate underneath it without getting tangled. It also helps take a bit of the weight of the rather heavy piece of flexible hose. This in turn means I probably don't need the mask as tight too.

I use the Hozer https://www.cpap.com/productpage/hozer- ... ution.html. The Hozer makes sure everything stays out of the way. I also dislike the way the FX vents from the front of the mask, instead of the top, like the Headrest. It blows on the pillowcase, on the sheets, on my hands.

I really wanted to like the FX, and I thought I was getting used to it, but the pain issues mean it's a non-starter for me.

Thanks for the links!

rosacer wrote: I'll double again the fleece until get a good padding and then the deconstruction will be a complete success.

Other than that small detail it's working. I need to repeat that it's no possible to have a good seal without the tights leg in front of the cushion and attached in the back of the head with restedgal's special knot. And no, it doesn't slides over the hair it keeps in place over the elastic's junction in the back of the head. I'm very happy I had the courage to deconstruct it

It IS hard to take a pair of scissors or whatever to something which costs as much as one of these masks, isn't it?

Bravo for a system which works and lets you get effective therapy!

It's such a pity that the Headrest isn't being made any more. I have five in store, and an additional ten or so nose pieces. I have, so far, gotten two good years out of my current mask, and it's still going strong on the first set of nasal pillows. If I get at three years a whack, I may run out of Headrest supplies somewhere around my 100th birthday, and by then they may have come up with something better.

But I still puzzled about why I can't get effective therapy from what is arguably one of the most popular masks that appears to work well for many people.