My friend, the witch doctor

Quick background, I have been almost non-functional for 2 years. None of the doctors can figure out what's wrong. As a last resort I saw my friend's chiropractor who practices alternative medicine. The reason I was willing to try this guy is because she was very sick for a year. Medical doctors believed it was her gall bladder and surgically removed it. She continued to get more and more sick to their shock, they were clueless. She saw this guy and within 5 minutes he told her she had copper poisoning. He told her to ask her doctor for a heavy metals screening. Witch Doctor (what we affectionately call him) was right! She has now fully recovered where modern medical science had failed her.

Anyway...I see him last fall. He is tapping chakra points, chanting stuff I can't hear, making me hold different vials, etc. He tells me to breathe normally. I tell him I am. He said, "No, you are holding your breath." I wasn't, or at least that I was aware of. He does some more tests and says.....I have Chronic Hyperventilation Syndrome. He shows me some breathing techniques and said I should do them at least once an hour because I had a build-up of carbon dioxide in my system.

After 6 months I don't feel better. Then he tests me for and decides I have Adrenal Fatigue. All the symptoms fit. I start taking an herbal supplement and "should" feel better within a few months. In some regards I do, but with my major complaints I don't. He's baffled. I lose hope in him. I see a different GP doctor while my doctor is on vacation. I am begging for something they can give me to stop my rage. I worry about my son who is high-needs and strong-willed.

She sends me to a sleep doctor, sleep study shows oxygenation levels drop to 85% while I am asleep. Immediately start my CPAP. Before I even fall asleep I feel the thing kick in and pulse. I'm still awake, but the machine is kicking in because I'm not breathing. My AHI goes from 27 during the study to 0.3 in a week. I still feel awful. It's getting worse and so are my symptoms.

I see the witch doctor Friday and he does his voodoo. He concludes that I don't WANT to breathe! Basically he had me hold out my arm and with one finger tried to push it down while I resisted. He had me repeat phrases. No matter what he said, I could resist. When I had to say, "I want to breathe," my arm fell to my side like it weighed 50 lbs. He believes on a subconcious level I don't want to breathe anymore, I've given up. He wants me to train myself to breathe fully and deeply. He said the CPAP won't help until my oxygenation levels go up.

If you are still reading after all that, bless you. Has anyone ever heard of this? Training yourself to breathe differently in an effort to feel better. I should mention that he doesn't doubt that I have sleep apnea (he suspects my small jaw and severe overbite are to blame just as the sleep doctor does), but he said the reason the machine isn't helping is because of my oxygenation and that I will have to "cure" it myself.

Thoughts? I know he sounds like a quack, but he was the closest to problem last year when he told me I had Chronic Hyperventilation Syndrome and not enough oxygen in my system when the other doctors were still thinking PPD, Epstein-Barr, CFS and even Lupus.

Could you give us more details from your sleep study? AHI or RDI....Apneas or hypopneas? What kind of therapy are you using..CPAP or BiPAP or ??? Details, details, details...

When you use any PAP, it takes a little time to feel the effect. Some people take a couple of weeks. You are in the right place for answers, I think. We just need you to fill in some blanks.

While I don't know anything about the breathing issues you mention, I will say that this type of "witch doctor" was the only one who managed to diagnose my family's food intolerances years ago, when all the doctors couldn't figure it out. I had weekly migraines before the age of 12, my sister had a chronic ear infection, and my dad had all sorts of issues as well. So while I have NO explanation how or why muscle testing works, I believe it! (Although I'm still out on a limb how the 'asking questions' thing really works, but hey there's probably something to that too. More than a hundred years ago we didn't even know that germs existed... what will we find out in the next 100 years??).

One other thing I would like to add - don't lose hope. Sometimes it takes all the pieces of the puzzle to fit together before we see improvement. For me, starting cpap was not the 100% answer. It also took solving the thyroid issue, not eating before bed, taking digestive supplements, etc... It's amazing how one medical issue and/or lifestyle habit piggy-backs onto the other one, and pretty soon your health is like a set of domino's that have all fallen over. You may have to prop each one back up before you start to see a difference. As always I have horrible analogies. Good luck!

Have you seen a neurologist? Pulmologist? ?? The chiro might be well meaning, good at guessing diagnoses, etc., but without the huge background of medical knowledge available to 'regular' MD's (never mind seeing things from the standpoint of chiro. educ.) will always come up short against them, being just plain unaware of some, unfamiliar with others from experience (people don't normally see chiropractors for complex, possibly metabolic, maybe brain-based conditions), and not having the equipment if nothing else to test out their theories. As long as you keep paying him, I'm sure he'll keep coming up with new theories, but that doesn't make him right (or wrong) and it doesn't get you farther ahead from the sound of it. You really need to keep pushing the medical community and not be running all over the place. They might not have come up with 'the answer' yet, but at least have far more tools and a much wider pool of knowledge from which to draw on.

I do not have the results of my sleep study. My study was August 1st and my follow-up isn't until September 15th. I've called three times and am always told that he cannot see me sooner. So I am going at this completely alone. I did make an appointment with an RT from the clinic, but she was unable to answer any questions or make changes. She couldn't even use my machine! She just said that I'm not getting enough sleep. No kidding?

My doctor at the sleep clinic is a pulmologist.

Just trying to find ANY method that might actually get positive results because I am truly at the end of my rope.

Desperate_in_DM wrote:I do not have the results of my sleep study. My study was August 1st and my follow-up isn't until September 15th. I've called three times and am always told that he cannot see me sooner. So I am going at this completely alone. I did make an appointment with an RT from the clinic, but she was unable to answer any questions or make changes. She couldn't even use my machine! She just said that I'm not getting enough sleep. No kidding?

My doctor at the sleep clinic is a pulmologist.

Just trying to find ANY method that might actually get positive results because I am truly at the end of my rope.

I feel for you, really, I do, but there is no magic that is going to substitute for quantity of sleep. You know that you are not getting enough sleep every night. If feeling bad is the thing you want to change most in your life, then you are going to have to find a way to make sleep a priority. I don't know how you will do that, but you need to find a way.

Desperate, I'm so sorry that you've been having such a difficult time. I've had very challenging periods in my life too, but I'm doing well now, so know that there is hope! I got more help from an experienced, well-trained homeopath than I've received from most physicians, so I don't doubt the effectiveness of some forms of "alternative" medicine!

I know that you've been going through some challenging times in your personal life. That stress certainly may be affecting your sleep quality (or lack thereof). I would think that stress also causes our breathing to be more shallow. Have you considered meeting with a counsellor to work out some of these personal issues? Daytime problems will definitely affect our sleep. I know that when I'm particularly stressed, I have a tendency to arouse more during the night and wake up very early, for example, which cuts into my total sleep hours. Then that affects how I feel/function during the day. It can become a rather vicious cycle! Many people with sleep apnea do have problems with anxiety/depression, so if that is a factor then you may see improvement once your therapy and sleep time are optimal. At least, you should see your coping skills improve, even if the stressors remain.

I seem to recall you mentioning that your difficulties began when you were pregnant or after birth. Have you had your hormones thoroughly tested recently? Pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, weaning and (peri)menopause can affect women in various ways. I went through menopause at an early age, and I felt like a crazy woman, not at all in keeping with my usually calm and rational temperament! You're probably too young for that, but other hormone imbalances could be a major factor in your difficulties.

In order to test whether oxygenation IS currently a problem, you might want to consider purchasing a recording pulse oximeter. You could wear that while using your CPAP machine to see if everything's okay. That would give you "proof" one way or another, at least during sleep. I use the Contec CMS 50-E. If you're interested in learning more, there are many threads here regarding oximeters. Two sources are http://www.pulseoxstore.com and http://www.oximetersonline.com. Perhaps you would benefit from some yoga training, where you would learn to breathe deeply and calm the mind.

Keep in mind that you haven't been using CPAP for very long. It may take some time (months) to see full results. It will be very important for you to get copies of your sleep study so you can understand your own situation better. A few things to look for are the type of apneas and whether there are excessive limb movements and/or arousals noted.

I know that your machine is reporting good AHI results, but there is SO much more to it. If you are not getting enough hours of good quality sleep, then you will not feel your best during the day. This can take some time to resolve, as you've probably had some poor sleep patterns for quite some time. The personal issues may be causing you some problems at night, and perhaps you don't sleep soundly because of your young son too. Take a step back, and look at the entire picture -- all lifestyle factors/habits -- and perhaps you can find the key.

I have a feeling that you're going to get to the bottom of this soon. I hope so! Please do let us know how you're doing.

P.S. I suspect that the machine you have listed in your profile is incorrect, as that's an older model. I believe you may have the PR System One REMstar Auto. To change that, go to User Control Panel (upper left on screen), Profile, and then Edit Equipment. That machine is there is the drop-down list under "PR System One."

D in DM, I was glad to see in your other topic that you mustered your determination (has to be tough, given how fatigued you feel) and now will be receiving your full sleep study reports:

In this topic ( "What should a RT be able to do for you?" )
viewtopic/t54725/viewtopic.php?p=515462#p515462

Desperate_in_DM wrote:Just called and again receptionist was dismissive stating that I could discuss my sleep study at my follow-up. I insisted and she forwarded my call to records. First person said I need to fill out a release (which I expected) and then said it would take 4 weeks and would be mailed. I got a little....erm...animated. A supervisor was found and said my study would be ready for me to pick up within the hour.

I guess I'm usually too nice. I need to channel my rage more.

Good for you!!! Hang in there. You've got a lot of support here.

What your witch doctor says makes sense to me. I'm a big believer in the powers of the mind-body connection.

Honey,
Im so sorry you are suffering so very much..

I have had a "witch doctor" help me where no doctor could even find a clue..

I am also a shallow breather, and I have been trying to find something to make this cpap therapy work for me.

I bought this dvd on amazon.com its a lot cheaper than a doctor visit, and you never know it might help..
After I bought this dvd, I was talking to a friend about it, turns out he knows this man very well, and
cant say enough kind things about him. So, the gentleman who made this dvd is very sincere and honest.

here is a youtube video of the introduction of the dvd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZFdKxOzmw


here is a link to where to find this dvd to purchase it.

http://www.amazon.com/Max-Strom-Learn-B ... B000T2PRLG

This is something that may help, but certainly should not hurt you..

I watched it already one time, and I think it might help me. I have trouble when I take a deep breath, it makes my lungs all twitchy
and I start coughing, so Im going to practice this, for however long it takes for my lungs to cooperate.
I think shallow breathing can cost a host of maladies, but there is a reason it must have started in the first place..
Have you had a lot of lung or bronchial infections in the past or when you were a child? Just tossing that out there, cuz I know you so want to
find the answer that will make you feel better.. Believe me, I KNOW you do...

When I was in college, I thought I was developing asthma (runs in my family) because I felt like I just couldn't get enough air no matter how hard I tried. I went to the doctor, and was diagnosed with hyperventilation syndrome. He explained that I was actually OVER breathing, and this was leading to an over-oxygenation of my lungs. Now the funky thing is that the brain interprets the signal from the lungs when this happens as being a need to breathe even more.. thus making me feel like I wasn't getting enough air. I still have this problem from time to time, especially when I get stressed out.

So whatever it is you have, I'm pretty sure it's not hyperventilation syndrome. Perhaps hypoventilation? As "hypo" tends to mean under and "hyper" means over.

Edit: Actually, upon looking it up I now remember that the feeling is from too low of a carbon dioxide level, not too high of an oxygen level.

Desperate_in_DM wrote:As a last resort I saw my friend's chiropractor who practices alternative medicine. The reason I was willing to try this guy is because she was very sick for a year.

I see the witch doctor Friday and he does his voodoo. He concludes that I don't WANT to breathe! Basically he had me hold out my arm and with one finger tried to push it down while I resisted. He had me repeat phrases. No matter what he said, I could resist. When I had to say, "I want to breathe," my arm fell to my side like it weighed 50 lbs. He believes on a subconcious level I don't want to breathe anymore, I've given up. He wants me to train myself to breathe fully and deeply. He said the CPAP won't help until my oxygenation levels go up.

Yes - i have done this kind of alternative medicals stuff and experienced its healing also. You are very very lucky to have found him.

There are breathing exercise you can learn but until you dig down deep to find some of the reasons or to reprogram your self you will have difficulty.

Start with finding affirmations to use like " I can breathe deeply and easily at all times"(note the positive and the present tense) Try writing them 10 times and listen to your internal chatter, what comes up? This can be very tough, lots off things you might not want to think about might come up. Ask you witch doctor to recommend a "witch" to help you deal with this - someone competent in hypnotherapy or neuro-linguistics or bodywork with these combinations. You don''t always have to dig up the details you just have to reprogram your re-actions.

You can start this way too: sit in a comfortable chair with your back supported. put your hands on your belly and slowly breathe in deeply and feel your hands move (diaphragm breathing - remember your birthing classes) count slowly to 4 as you breathe in, hold to the count of 4, breath out to the count of 4, hold for the count of 4. When you have this figured out: breathe 3 times with hands on your belly, breathe 3 times holding your left thumb, 3 times holding your index finger, 3 times for your middle finger, 3 times for ring finger and 3 times for your little finger. Repeat with right hand, then 3 times with your hands together. Stretch and shake every thing.
Every time you mind starts to wander bring it back to count to 4 with your breathe and the finger.




A

DreamOn wrote:I know that you've been going through some challenging times in your personal life. That stress certainly may be affecting your sleep quality (or lack thereof)"

I am? My son doesn't sleep through the night that well yet, but that's about it. My biggest stress is feeling like Hell.

Thanks for the responses. I guess it doesn't hurt to breathe, eh? I might try some of these techniques coupled with what he's already shown me.

My daughter was on the brink of quitting her job because she couldn't function. I got her started taking the appropriate dose of Vitamin D3 and it turned her life around in a matter of days. Doctor's had tested Thryroid and everything else but Vitamin D. Wanted to put her on Anti-Depressants. She didn't even bother going back after she started the Vitamin D3.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

good luck
John

Actually the doctors determined I had a vitamin D deficiency along with a B12 deficiency last year. Seems to come and go every few years or so, not the first time I've had it. I no longer see the hematologist, but I stil take supplemental D & B12.