K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid"

Be Careful with over thinking S9 data

I got the word back from the Guru of Guru's "CG" that in regards to my data for the last 3 weeks. I am definitely on the right track. The centrals that I was worried about are not centrals, they are just straightforward leaks. The machine just labels them as centrals. They are working with resmed to clear this up so there is not so much confusion in reading the results.

That leads me to the ultimate quest of finding the right mask!
Last night I used the smaller cushion with the large nose pillows for the hybrid liberty and that made a positive difference. What was really amazing was the condition of the previous cushion and nose pillows after only 5 weeks of my initial liberty use. The silicone had really deteriorated significantly. I also switched from the climate line to the slim line. The tub is still near empty every morning upon wakening or this is what's waking me.

I can't wait for the day that I am not consumed with this !!!!!

Way to go! BTW did you ever receive my email about posting your graphs? I sent it the same day but never got a reply.

Significant leaks can cause your tank to empty quicker. Is the heating up too high? And some people DO go through a whole tank at night, just watch out that it doesn't empty if you have the heating on. But I would still look to large leaks as the cause first.

I never did get a reply. But that might be on my end. I will send you my personal email instead.

The PM function needs to be streamlined. We are not working in the intelligence business. It's actually the opposite, we are looking to get our brain power back.

weird. will send you a PM instead.

There have been several posts here about H5i humidifiers not warming up or using any water. So I was wondering what settings you were using for each hose. And has it been humid or dry in Norcal recently?

You do not have to worry about damaging the humidifier if it runs out of water. It is designed to handle that condition without suffering damage.

We live in micro-climates just north of san francisco. That is what makes it such perfect weather for growing the grapes and anything else you can stick in the ground. Not that I can drink and enjoy any wine without my throat closing up.

I find it to be very dry. Cools off down to the low 50's at night with fog and then warms up to the 90's during the day every day. My hygro-thermometer averages about 50% humidity in our room. We don't have a/c.

Right now my settings are on manual . I switched from the climate line to the slim line. I have the humidity setting at 5.0 with no rainout.

i am not worried about damaging the tub. I do worry about the nasty headache that ensues if I inhale dry air for a long time.

asleep@thewheel wrote: I do worry about the nasty headache that ensues if I inhale dry air for a long time.

That's another story completely. Thanks for your response.

asleep@thewheel wrote:Be Careful with over thinking S9 data

I got the word back from the Guru of Guru's "CG" that in regards to my data for the last 3 weeks. I am definitely on the right track. The centrals that I was worried about are not centrals, they are just straightforward leaks. The machine just labels them as centrals. They are working with resmed to clear this up so there is not so much confusion in reading the results.

Oh for hecks sakes, I have been trying to figure out why I had some on my graph, and they are just leaks?
geez, thanks for the heads up!

asleep@thewheel wrote:Be Careful with over thinking S9 data

I got the word back from the Guru of Guru's "CG" that in regards to my data for the last 3 weeks. I am definitely on the right track. The centrals that I was worried about are not centrals, they are just straightforward leaks. The machine just labels them as centrals. They are working with resmed to clear this up so there is not so much confusion in reading the results.

First, who is "CG"? I must know who the Guru of Gurus is.

You didn't explain about how the leaks are being labeled as centrals. Was that explained to you? I think this may be the theory regarding that.... Let's say that your mouth is open during the night, which allows the therapy air to escape. The machine records this as a "leak." The S9 machine senses that you're having an "event" because there is no breath for 10+ seconds, so it tests (using Forced Oscillation Technique aka "FOT") to see if your airway is open (which it would interpret as a central apnea) or closed (which it would mark as as an obstructive apnea). I can see where it's possible that it may read the airway as open (unobstructed) because the air is flowing out from your mouth, and therefore mark that as a central apnea.

It seems to me that there probably WAS an event of some kind, though. That's why it tested your airway. It could have been an obstructive apnea that occurred because the therapy air was escaping from your mouth and therefore wasn't doing its job of keeping your airway open. Or it may have been a central. There's no way to tell for sure what type of apnea it was if it wasn't actually testing your airway (throat). Am I thinking wrong about this?

In my own case, I usually have a perfectly flat leak line -- zero leaks. I do have some centrals apneas recorded, and I do think they are correctly reported. I could still be having a central apnea if my mouth was wide open, with therapy air gushing out. Central apneas are caused by the brain failing to signal the respiratory system to breathe. I just don't want people to think that they are never having validly recorded central apneas -- that centrals are always misinterpreted because of leaks. You could be having both leaks and centrals. It IS good to consider all the variables, though.

CG is the man who discovered sleep apnea in 1972. He is still practicing at the the center where REM was discovered. Imagine Laurence Olivier. The kindest sweetest smartest man I have ever met.

In my case, the centrals that were being reported were in direct correlation with the leaking events that I was having based on my detailed report that I sent to them from the rescan 3.11 software. The software on the s9 hasn't been improved upon to determine the differences. That is what they told me. Unless you are hooked up at sleep study with 16 or 50 electrodes that is the only definitive way to determine if you are truly having central episodes. I appreciate keeping the door open to the other possibilities, but for the majority of people in this forum, the simplest answer is usually the right answer. Get the leaks under control before you dive deeper. Especially when your cognitive ability is keeping you from getting a good firm grasp on this apnea journey. I am pretty sure everybody has some centrals when moving from stage to stage?

If not I am just leaking hot air....what can I tell you.

asleep@thewheel wrote:CG is the man who discovered sleep apnea in 1972. He is still practicing at the the center where REM was discovered.

Okay, Christian Guilleminault, M.D., of Stanford. Got it. I thought you were talking about a forum member here, and I couldn't figure it out!

Get the leaks under control before you dive deeper.

I absolutely agree with that 100%! Excessive leaks can really skew things.

I am pretty sure everybody has some centrals when moving from stage to stage?

Yes, I agree. That appears to be the cause in my own case.

Thanks so much for clarifying!

Next time I see him, I will ask him if we would like to participate in a live chat?

I am pretty sure we would all get a lot out of it.

A live chat w/CG would be great if it can be arranged!!!

Meanwhile, its too bad more sleep "doctors" and RRTs weren't aware that Leaks can be such a problem and can affect our reported data so much. I questioned and tolerated a high leak rate, low AHI for almost 18 months before I finally blew my cool a bit w/the sleep doctor(s) at my sleep lab.

When it comes to Leaks, forum members are one h*ll of a whole lot more savvy than the credentialed idiots who script our therapy!

"My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software"
that is awesome.

The luckiest and now in hindsight smartest thing I have ever done in my life besides marrying my wife is to make an appt at Stanford. For a year and a half I went to UCSF in the city out here, big mistake. Can't believe that I didn't drive the extra 30 minutes down to palo alto originally. I figured they all shared and had the same knowledge. My grandfather used to say, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ___"

You can't make an appt. wit CG . He only sees the extreme cases from what I know. You have to work with one of their fellows and if the fellow is out of his/her league, they bring in the Godfather.

I lost my father about 8 years back, due to early alzheimers, now in hindsight most likely an undiagnosed sleep disorder which led to his heart disease at 38 and alzheimers at 50. To hear and see CG look at me with the wisdom of my elders when I brought my 2 year old little girl in to see him against her pediatrician and pediatric ent's advice was one of the most gratifying moments of my life. "Son you can't deny paternity." That is how similar our jaws already resembled each other. He doesn't need sleep studies to determine if you have apnea, he needs the studies to determine the degree and if there is anything else that might be going on. He doubled my pressure right off the bat from what my study showed at UCSF based on how narrow my airway is. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Finally, finally, finally, someone knows what is going on with me. With tears in the corners of my eyes, we traced my apnea back to about 2 years old as well when I first started showing signs of strabismus. Countless Dr.'s and near deaths for over 35 years, I must say it is nice to reclaim my life and to give my daughter every opportunity to strive without some hidden monster holding her back.

asleep@thewheel, your daughter is one lucky little girl to have you and CG in her corner! I'm sorry your journey has been so long and rough, and am touched that you shared your story here. I look forward to hearing how well things go for you and your child now!