Comparison: S9 AutoSet vs. Respironics System 1 Auto

OLD THREAD: viewtopic/t53367/RespironicsRemStarPro- ... toSet.html


Today I had ten minutes to look at, touch, sniff, and try these two machines. Thought I'd share some comparisons just from this brief time, but this is by no means comprehensive. I chose to purchase the ResMed S9 Auto Set for many reasons, but #10 and #11 below are disappointments with the ResMed unit and they require more investigation. I am not a Sleep Medicine specialist and tonight will be my first night sleeping with the ResMed S9.

Here is the list, not in any order of importance, and some are trivial:

1. The base unit of the ResMed (RM) is slightly lighter weight than the Respironics (RP).
2. The power plug into the unit is a nice tubular fit with a hollow center (without prongs) on the RP, but the RM has three prongs. We all have seen prongs bend and break in other devices. This alone would have dissuaded me from buying the RM, but fortunately the RM has a guided entry so that the pins get aligned. Wish RM would have made a fitting like RP.
3. The RM height is slightly less than the RP.
4. The RM unit, even if the humidifier is attached, has an air exit straight back, viz parallel to the floor. This could allow for a bend or kink. The RP unit also exits this way, but with the humidifier the exit is superior (on top), swivels, and has a slight angle (maybe 30 degrees from vertical).
5. The display in the RP is poor compared to the RM. The RM display is larger, in color, easier to read at any angle, nd is backlit so one can read it in the dark. The RP is a B & W LCD and is not as clear as the RM.
6. The RP water level in the humidifier can be seen without removing the chamber. One just looks from the side. Very nice. With the RM, one either has to guess from looking down into the chamber, or remove the chamber to see the water level. I never use an humidifier so this was not a "deal-breaker".
7. The RM had better hinges on the humidifier compartment than the RP's hinges. Both can be removed.
8. The RP chamber can be opened to facilitate cleaning. The RM could not be opened.
9. The RM carrying case has BOTH a handle strap and a shoulder strap. The RP has only a shoulder strap. The RM case has an outer pocket, whereas the RP case does not. I prefer the RM case.
10. The RP took four of my full breaths to turn on the unit. Yuck. The RM turned on during the first breath (yippeee !), but there was a ten second delay for it to get to my lower limit setting of "8". The RP, although uncomfortably delayed turning on, went immediately to my lower pressure. So far, no one knows how to make the RM unit S9 go immediately to the lower set limit. The RM S8 Auto Set went to the lower limit immediately, so it's unclear why the S9 does not. One can see the bar move from left to right over the ten seconds, and it stops at "8". If no one here can solve this, I'll contact ResMed. It's not that this ten second gradual rise is bad, but it felt far more comfortable using the S8 because it did go right to the minimum pressure. The S9 can feel a bit "smothering" until it gets to the minimum pressure of 8.
11. The RM didn't seem to acknowledge my EPR of "2" until the pressure got to the "8" set minimum. This is just a sensation, as it has not been checked with a manometer.
12. The RM comes with a disposable fine filter. The PR has a coarser sponge type filter which is re-usable. The RM seems it would filter finer particles than the RP. The RP unit does not have a filter cover... the filter just sits in a rectangular hole. No big deal. I prefer the finer disposable filter of the RM.
13. With the RM, the backlight will stay on for over two minutes in the HOME menu, but once the machine is activated by breathing, the light stays on for only 20 seconds. I wish the backlight time was user selectable. Yes, you can press the central button and turn it on for another 20 seconds, but user selectable timing would be a nice enhancement. The light is not bright enough to interfere with sleeping.
14. One of the power supply transformers is larger than the other but I forgot which one.

Both the RM and RP were extremely quiet. A call to a Rep for the ResMed Corp reassured me that their algorithm for the EPR and auto-titration are both superior in sampling and function than the RP. Most members here seem to like the RM software over the RP software, and the clinician RM software has a promising forthcoming new release.

I have used the RM S8 for a month, and tonight I'll sleep with the RM S9 for the first time.

CURRENT SETTINGS:
Autoset
Max 18
Min 8
Max Ramp OFF
Start Pressure 8
EPR Full time @ 2
Sleep Quality and Smart Start ON
Usual Final Pressure: 14 (from ResMed S8 AutoSet)

MASK: Activa


WITH MUCH THANKS TO: Mr. D.N. of GMS for his dedicated help in educating me about this equipment and being so patient and instructive. If any of you need a fine supply place in the San Francisco Bay Area which specializes in only CPAP and Bi-level PAPs, just message me. Mr. D.N. has OSA so he is very sensitive to the needs and concerns of patients.

Unfortunately you had no way to check the things that really matter:

1. Autotitration algorithm
2. Expiratory relief
3. Software quality
4. Sound level
5. Reliability

All of these are more important than the case handles or how long the display back light stays on

Physician wrote:OLD THREAD: viewtopic/t53367/RespironicsRemStarPro- ... toSet.html
Today I had ten minutes to look at, touch, sniff, and try these two machines. Thought I'd share some comparisons just from this brief time, but this is by no means comprehensive. I chose to purchase the ResMed S9 Auto Set for many reasons, but #10 and #11 below are disappointments with the ResMed unit and they require more investigation. I am not a Sleep Medicine specialist and tonight will be my first night sleeping with the ResMed S9.

Here is the list, not in any order of importance, and some are trivial:

1. The base unit of the ResMed (RM) is slightly lighter weight than the Respironics (RP).
2. The power plug into the unit is a nice tubular fit with a hollow center (without prongs) on the RP, but the RM has three prongs. We all have seen prongs bend and break in other devices. This alone would have dissuaded me from buying the RM, but fortunately the RM has a guided entry so that the pins get aligned. Wish RM would have made a fitting like RP.
3. The RM height is slightly less than the RP.
4. The RM unit, even if the humidifier is attached, has an air exit straight back, viz parallel to the floor. This could allow for a bend or kink. The RP unit also exits this way, but with the humidifier the exit is superior (on top), swivels, and has a slight angle (maybe 30 degrees from vertical).
5. The display in the RP is poor compared to the RM. The RM display is larger, in color, easier to read at any angle, nd is backlit so one can read it in the dark. The RP is a B & W LCD and is not as clear as the RM.
6. The RP water level in the humidifier can be seen without removing the chamber. One just looks from the side. Very nice. With the RM, one either has to guess from looking down into the chamber, or remove the chamber to see the water level. I never use an humidifier so this was not a "deal-breaker".
7. The RM had better hinges on the humidifier compartment than the RP's hinges. Both can be removed.
8. The RP chamber can be opened to facilitate cleaning. The RM could not be opened.
9. The RM carrying case has BOTH a handle strap and a shoulder strap. The RP has only a shoulder strap. The RM case has an outer pocket, whereas the RP case does not. I prefer the RM case.
10. The RP took four of my full breaths to turn on the unit. Yuck. The RM turned on during the first breath (yippeee !), but there was a ten second delay for it to get to my lower limit setting of "8". The RP, although uncomfortably delayed turning on, went immediately to my lower pressure. So far, no one knows how to make the RM unit S9 go immediately to the lower set limit. The RM S8 Auto Set went to the lower limit immediately, so it's unclear why the S9 does not. One can see the bar move from left to right over the ten seconds, and it stops at "8". If no one here can solve this, I'll contact ResMed. It's not that this ten second gradual rise is bad, but it felt far more comfortable using the S8 because it did go right to the minimum pressure. The S9 can feel a bit "smothering" until it gets to the minimum pressure of 8.
11. The RM didn't seem to acknowledge my EPR of "2" until the pressure got to the "8" set minimum. This is just a sensation, as it has not been checked with a manometer.
12. The RM comes with a disposable fine filter. The PR has a coarser sponge type filter which is re-usable. The RM seems it would filter finer particles than the RP. The RP unit does not have a filter cover... the filter just sits in a rectangular hole. No big deal. I prefer the finer disposable filter of the RM.
13. With the RM, the backlight will stay on for over two minutes in the HOME menu, but once the machine is activated by breathing, the light stays on for only 20 seconds. I wish the backlight time was user selectable. Yes, you can press the central button and turn it on for another 20 seconds, but user selectable timing would be a nice enhancement. The light is not bright enough to interfere with sleeping.
14. One of the power supply transformers is larger than the other but I forgot which one.

Both the RM and RP were extremely quiet. A call to a Rep for the ResMed Corp reassured me that their algorithm for the EPR and auto-titration are both superior in sampling and function than the RP. Most members here seem to like the RM software over the RP software, and the clinician RM software has a promising forthcoming new release.

I'm not sure you can count on objectivity from a ResMed rep, though I do like ResMed's EPR a lot.

Regarding the humidifier chamber: The one included with the S9 is "disposable" and does not open for cleaning, as you say. For $37 or so, you can buy a much sturdier one that DOES open for cleaning, and it's dishwasher safe.

Cpap.com sells different kinds of filters for each of these machines.

Others here on cpaptalk.com have provided better comparisons of these machines. See these:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50104&p=463219#p463219
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50624

-Ron

My Respironics System One Auto takes 1 or 2 breaths to start and starts right at my minimum pressure after that first breath (or 2).

There are additional disposable white fine filters available that go behind the black foam filter on the Respironics System One machine (and other Respironics machines). This gives more filtration for extra fine stuff and is really good for seasonal allergies sufferers like myself.

I have software so the display does not matter to me and I have a carry case that I bought separately, for a previous machine, so the case does not matter to me. I have a "medical device" tag on this case and have no problems. It was not expensive ($40.00). It also has wheels and, of course, a pull up handle or I can use the handles or shoulder strap. I have used this case for all the machines I have had (3). The case would never be a consideration in a cpap machine for me.

I'm not defending the Respironics machine or saying it is better than the Resmed, just pointing out a few missing things or possibilities in your comparison of the 2 machines.

Thanks for the comparisons so far that influenced your decision which to try, Physician.

It somewhat surprises me that the fact that the RM S9 is an auto and the RP Pro is just a straight CPAP didn't enter into your decision making process.

Or did I miss something and need to re-read your comparison again? If you were comparing the RP Auto or RP S1 Auto w/the RM S9 Auto it would be nice if you would edit your original post in this thread to correct the Subject line. Forget the RemStar bit, Respironics has included that in all their CPAP model names for quite some time now, thru at least 3 serious of PAPs that I'm aware of.

Slinky wrote:Thanks for the comparisons so far that influenced your decision which to try, Physician.

It somewhat surprises me that the fact that the RM S9 is an auto and the RP Pro is just a straight CPAP didn't enter into your decision making process.

Or did I miss something and need to re-read your comparison again? If you were comparing the RP Auto or RP S1 Auto w/the RM S9 Auto it would be nice if you would edit your original post in this thread to correct the Subject line. Forget the RemStar bit, Respironics has included that in all their CPAP model names for quite some time now, thru at least 3 serious of PAPs that I'm aware of.

Okay. EDITED. Both were "auto titrating" units. Is the title satisfactory now ?

Okay, right on, Physician. Now we're getting a comparison of oranges and oranges! (I prefer oranges over apples. Apples don't set well on my tummy).

I've been a Resmed fan since being started on a Resmed S8 Elite, then a Resmed S8 AutoSet Vantage and then switched to a Resmed VPAP Auto due to COPD. I was excited to learn that Resmed was coming out w/the S9s - and Respironics w/the PR SystemOnes. Resmed hasn't introduced an S9 VPAP Auto yet so I opted to trial a PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex. I like it quite well but detest the EncorePro software. I like the extra data the PR S1 is capable of collecting but you need the EP software to take advantage of the extra data and EP 2.2 leaves a lot to be desired as EP always has in my opinion.

I really love the Respironics BiPaps!

I prefer a BiPap or VPAP to a straight CPAP. To me the breathing pressure levels are much more natural and sustainable. I would never go back to a CPAP.

Of the bi-levels, I prefer the Respironics to the ResMed. The Respironics "Rise" setting - which adjusts the amount of time it takes for the inhale (IPAP) to reach full pressure - lets me create a much "softer" feeling flow.

We will have to wait to see what the S9 VPAPs are like. Odd to me that they are taking so long to come out after the S9 Auto. I think Slinky posted an estimated date recently?

The ResMed software is much nicer than the Respironics, no question. But once you get your therapy dialed in, so that your AHI is 1.0 or less, there isn't a lot to look at in the softweare that it matters too much ongoing.

Best,
Michael

I have the PR S1 only because it was my only option with an HMO, not because I prefer it to the S9, so I'm not championing PR S1's per se but . . .

A call to a Rep for the ResMed Corp reassured me that their algorithm for the EPR and auto-titration are both superior in sampling and function than the RP.

Sheesh, what did you EXPECT him to say???

If I had a choice, I probably would choose the S9 over the PR S1. The lack of onscreen data and backlighting is the primary reason. Also, I would like the options of the slimline hose and climate control hose.

But, alas, I have the PR S1, and for someone who didn't have a choice it is not so bad. It delivers great therapy. It's quiet, works well, and the EPR algorithm ("flex") is very comfortable. While it's inconvenient and expensive to access the data, data can be accessed and it's very helpful data. Mine starts up in 1 - 2 breaths at full pressure and I use a fine white paper filter in addition to the foam sponge filter. I'm getting excellent numbers, I feel great, and overall I've got only minor complaints about the machine.

As I get more comfortable with my treatment and I am not having any problems, I am not so obsessed with looking at the inadequate screen daily for the paltry information it provides. I am checking my card with Encore Viewer weekly, and it's all fairly unremarkable other than the fact my numbers are fantastic. So it's not so bad here in PR (you say "RP) land.

The Resmed VPAP Auto and VPAP Auto 25 have Rise Time as well. And in addition Triggering and Cycling sensitivy settings that can be adjusted and there is more Rise Time fine tuning w/them. I see no reason why they would discontinue these comfort features w/their S9 VPAP Autos when they are released.

Thanks Slinky.

I should clarify. My ResMed ASV does not have those settings. My Respironics ASV does, as do the other Respironics BiPaps that I have used.

The Respironics ASV is much, much more comfortable to use than the ResMed ASV. I have not used other ResMed VPAP machines, though I have used ResMed CPAP machines and a Respironics S1 CPAP.

If anyone moved from a Respironics M Series Auto with Aflex to a System 1 Auto, I'd be interested in your views about how they compare. I have used an M series for three years and was seriously considering a System 1, which looks fantastic on paper, and the reviews are very good.

I ended up getting an S9 Autoset. I was pretty happy with the M series Aflex feature (exhalation relief), but the S9's EPR works even better for me. Plus, the S9 is soooo quiet compared to the M series. The S9 displays much more useful data than the M series, and the S9's humidifier seems more advanced than the M series humidifier. The S9 humidifier chamber is cheaper and hard to open for cleaning, but you can order one that is sturdier, dishwasher safe, and easily opens for cleaning. The M series and System 1 include the higher quality humidifier chamber at no extra cost.

The S9 reports a lower AHI than the M series did. I don't know if that's because the S9 gives better therapy, or simply the two machines measure/report the same thing differently. (Maybe these numbers are merely estimates, and the M series gives a more conservative estimate than the S9???)

<Sorry I've gotten off topic>

Best,
Ron

For Roncon -

I went from an M Series Auto to a PR System One Auto. I find that the only differences that I notice are that the System One is quieter than the M Series and that the air delivery seems smoother - easier - I'm not sure which word describes it best.

I kept all settings the same and I have Encore Viewer 2.0. My AHI remains about the same, as does my leak rate. The software gives a little more data than Encore Viewer 1.0 gave. I get CAs and RERA with Viewer 2. I did get centrals with Viewer 1 but they were called NRs. MY VS is higher with the System One. At least the software shows that but my husband tells me that I do not snore at all. I don't know why it shows higher.

I slept quite well with the M Series but probably a little better with the System One because of the easier air flow.

Ron, I used an M Series briefly, then a System One Auto, then an S9 (now I'm post-op and not using anything). I found the M Series very disruptive to my sleep when it would switch pressures. The System One was better, but the CA test pulses may have been a problem, as was the noise of the machine. The S9 was the best.

BTW, did you happen to see my new thread:

viewtopic/t53632/Looking-for-single-man ... riend.html

MY VS is higher with the System One. At least the software shows that but my husband tells me that I do not snore at all. I don't know why it shows higher.

I'm new to CPAP so my PR S1 auto is my first machine, but I get relatively high VS too and I'm not sure why. My AHI's are VERY low (always under 1.0, sometimes even 0.0!) but I tend to have high VS scores. My husband, who could no longer sleep in the same room with me before CPAP, does not complain of me snoring.