The definition of insanity...doing the same thing over...
- Barb (Seattle)
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 pm
The definition of insanity...doing the same thing over...
..and over again, expecting different results. well, I went to the sleep center today. He noticed that I had moved the pressures ALL over the place and said he couldn't do anything without it being at a constant pressure for a while. Ok, I get that. BUT, he set the pressure back to 12 even after I told him the mask makes noises waking me up
I'll just go BACK in in a couple days and get him to do something different. I mentioned the nasal pillows, he said it would make the congestion worse.
Eight years. 8 years, and I'm still fooling around with CPAP.
gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, Nasal Pillows
I'll just go BACK in in a couple days and get him to do something different. I mentioned the nasal pillows, he said it would make the congestion worse.
Eight years. 8 years, and I'm still fooling around with CPAP.
gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, Nasal Pillows
He is interested in treating your apnea. Assuming you were titrated correctly, a pressure of 12 was needed to stop the apnea events you were experiencing.
Did he determine that when you lowered the pressure because of mask noises, you adversely impacted your treatment? Have you checked your results? Do you have a higher AHI since lowering your pressure?
It seems you need a different mask, not a lower pressure.
Think of it this way. It's like you've been prescribed a pill and the dosage is 500mg. The pill doesn't fit in your pillbox, so you cut it smaller until it would fit. Now you're not getting the required medicine to treat your condition. Don't cut the medicine.... get a bigger pillbox! (i.e. Don't lower your pressure, get a different mask!)
Did he determine that when you lowered the pressure because of mask noises, you adversely impacted your treatment? Have you checked your results? Do you have a higher AHI since lowering your pressure?
It seems you need a different mask, not a lower pressure.
Think of it this way. It's like you've been prescribed a pill and the dosage is 500mg. The pill doesn't fit in your pillbox, so you cut it smaller until it would fit. Now you're not getting the required medicine to treat your condition. Don't cut the medicine.... get a bigger pillbox! (i.e. Don't lower your pressure, get a different mask!)
Re: The definition of insanity...doing the same thing over..
Barb (Seattle) wrote: I mentioned the nasal pillows, he said it would make the congestion worse.
I'm pretty new to all of this, but I have chronic sinusitis problems and found the nasal pillows to be the only system that allows me to breathe. Go back and push your doc on this point. At least convince him/her that you should try it.
Good luck!
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"First rule of holes: when you are in one, stop digging"
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Hi Barb,
I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you've been having. Eight years, huh? I'm sure you've seen quite a bit of change in machines since then.
What I'm wondering is how many masks you've tried and if you've EVER had a mask that didn't leak at that pressure. I guess a follow-up to that would be whether you have always been prescribed at that pressure. Are the leaks severe or just small ones? Are the mask "noises" from leaks or from the "exhaust" vents? Perhaps a different FF mask would help.....? Other than the leaks/noises, can you handle breathing against that pressure? Would a machine with C-Flex help?.....or does your machine have the exhale relief feature?
I sincerely hope you find a solution to your problem.
Best wishes,
Den
I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you've been having. Eight years, huh? I'm sure you've seen quite a bit of change in machines since then.
What I'm wondering is how many masks you've tried and if you've EVER had a mask that didn't leak at that pressure. I guess a follow-up to that would be whether you have always been prescribed at that pressure. Are the leaks severe or just small ones? Are the mask "noises" from leaks or from the "exhaust" vents? Perhaps a different FF mask would help.....? Other than the leaks/noises, can you handle breathing against that pressure? Would a machine with C-Flex help?.....or does your machine have the exhale relief feature?
I sincerely hope you find a solution to your problem.
Best wishes,
Den
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05
- Barb (Seattle)
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 pm
Actually, the titrated pressure was 8...but by using auto the first week after the sleep test, he set it to 12. Yep, lowering the pressure increased the apneas occasionally. Sometimes there were MORE apneas at the higher pressures..I looked at what I wrote down for results every night. The AHI is pretty high, although the numbers vary. I was told by the sleep center DME person that at that high pressure they have difficulties with full face masks. Thank you for your thoughts! Love the pillbox analogy!Anonymous wrote:He is interested in treating your apnea. Assuming you were titrated correctly, a pressure of 12 was needed to stop the apnea events you were experiencing.
Did he determine that when you lowered the pressure because of mask noises, you adversely impacted your treatment? Have you checked your results? Do you have a higher AHI since lowering your pressure?
It seems you need a different mask, not a lower pressure.
Think of it this way. It's like you've been prescribed a pill and the dosage is 500mg. The pill doesn't fit in your pillbox, so you cut it smaller until it would fit. Now you're not getting the required medicine to treat your condition. Don't cut the medicine.... get a bigger pillbox! (i.e. Don't lower your pressure, get a different mask!)
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): DME, AHI, auto
- Barb (Seattle)
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 pm
...how many masks I've tried. The "Bubble Mask" in 1997 (terribly leaky) Mirage, then the Ultra Mirage (all nasal masks). Ultra Mirage Full Face mask, then the ComfortFull which I'm on now. But, the highest pressure was 11...the sleep center director said that it's pretty difficult to NOT have a full face mask leak at a high pressure. Evidently, the tech disagrees with her. The leak I get at 12 is what I would call severe...the mask makes noises whenever I move my head. That's it! I'll just try not to move all night I'll get a chance to ask for the pillows in the next few days...I don't think a pressure of 12 will work...who knows...I'll get to find out now, I'm goin' to bed.
*waving* *crosses fingers*
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage
*waving* *crosses fingers*
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage
- Barb (Seattle)
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 pm
Results from the last couple days of pressure 12...and the ComfortFull mask...
Night before last:
Pressure 12 AHI 31.1
Leak .32
AHI 31.1
AI 4.6
HI 26.5
4.43 hours of torture LOL Kept adjusting the mask all that time.
Last night:
I logged 7 minutes before ditching the mask.
The good news was that there was no apnea...or hypopnea. Of course I wasn't asleep I made it tighter to try to have it not leak, and the strap in back was cutting into my neck and the side of my jaw. I loosened it, and the air just was going "fffffffffff..fffffffffff.fffffffffffffff"
I would take it back tomorrow, but my car is "broken" and it will be several days before it's fixed...
*shrug*
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): news, AHI, Hypopnea
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): news, AHI, Hypopnea
Night before last:
Pressure 12 AHI 31.1
Leak .32
AHI 31.1
AI 4.6
HI 26.5
4.43 hours of torture LOL Kept adjusting the mask all that time.
Last night:
I logged 7 minutes before ditching the mask.
The good news was that there was no apnea...or hypopnea. Of course I wasn't asleep I made it tighter to try to have it not leak, and the strap in back was cutting into my neck and the side of my jaw. I loosened it, and the air just was going "fffffffffff..fffffffffff.fffffffffffffff"
I would take it back tomorrow, but my car is "broken" and it will be several days before it's fixed...
*shrug*
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): news, AHI, Hypopnea
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): news, AHI, Hypopnea
Hi Barb,
Your machine is an Auto, isn't it? Just wondering if you ever use it in Auto mode or just straight pressure? If you do use auto sometimes, what are the numbers like then, and do you notice any better results with the masks? Seems like at least part of the night the pressure would be lower and masks less leaky allowing for some sleep.
8 years is a loooong time. Hope it smooths out really soon!
Esther
Your machine is an Auto, isn't it? Just wondering if you ever use it in Auto mode or just straight pressure? If you do use auto sometimes, what are the numbers like then, and do you notice any better results with the masks? Seems like at least part of the night the pressure would be lower and masks less leaky allowing for some sleep.
8 years is a loooong time. Hope it smooths out really soon!
Esther
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Barb,
My reaction to what you wrote is, you need to use 8, not 12. If the reason they do a titration study is to find out what pressure is needed to help or eliminate your events, and 8 was the number they said was necessary for you, putting you on 12 makes no sense to me. And I agree that a nasal pillow interface can help with congestion. When I had my awful cold a few weeks ago, it actually did help me breathe. So this doctor, in my opinion, needs to stick to your titrated pressure of 8 and give you the nasal pillow interface to try. Why bother having a study if you don't follow what it says and throw the data out the window? And what harm could it do if you tried the nasal pillows? If you don't like it, you're no worse off than having masks you cannot use or that don't help you, like the state you're in now.
I think WillSucceed says it best. I'm paraphrasing, but he says that if your study is done correctly when they titrate you, straight CPAP at that number is how you will achieve your best results. With that in mind, I would stick to straight CPAP at 8 cms. and get yourself a np interface. If they won't get it for you through insurance, buy it yourself. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They are not THAT expensive and if it helps you finally, it will be worth every little penny you spent on it.
Eight years of no help tells me either that this doctor is not doing right by you and doesn't know how to address your issues or your sleep study/titration part may need to be repeated to see what is going on. It always amazes me how they can take one night out of your life, put you in conditions that you've never slept in before, with all different stressors, etc., and then titrate you based on that isolated set of conditions. Everyone on this site knows that if you change your settings, you can't only give it one night. You have to see at least a week's worth of data to know if it's working because things change nightly. So to do one night of a titration study in a strange place that you're not used to sleeping in which causes emotional stress, etc., it doesn't make sense to me. I think they should do these studies in your home, where conditions are as normal as they can be, honestly simulating your nightly sleeping pattern. Totally doesn't make any type of logical sense to me.
My reaction to what you wrote is, you need to use 8, not 12. If the reason they do a titration study is to find out what pressure is needed to help or eliminate your events, and 8 was the number they said was necessary for you, putting you on 12 makes no sense to me. And I agree that a nasal pillow interface can help with congestion. When I had my awful cold a few weeks ago, it actually did help me breathe. So this doctor, in my opinion, needs to stick to your titrated pressure of 8 and give you the nasal pillow interface to try. Why bother having a study if you don't follow what it says and throw the data out the window? And what harm could it do if you tried the nasal pillows? If you don't like it, you're no worse off than having masks you cannot use or that don't help you, like the state you're in now.
I think WillSucceed says it best. I'm paraphrasing, but he says that if your study is done correctly when they titrate you, straight CPAP at that number is how you will achieve your best results. With that in mind, I would stick to straight CPAP at 8 cms. and get yourself a np interface. If they won't get it for you through insurance, buy it yourself. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They are not THAT expensive and if it helps you finally, it will be worth every little penny you spent on it.
Eight years of no help tells me either that this doctor is not doing right by you and doesn't know how to address your issues or your sleep study/titration part may need to be repeated to see what is going on. It always amazes me how they can take one night out of your life, put you in conditions that you've never slept in before, with all different stressors, etc., and then titrate you based on that isolated set of conditions. Everyone on this site knows that if you change your settings, you can't only give it one night. You have to see at least a week's worth of data to know if it's working because things change nightly. So to do one night of a titration study in a strange place that you're not used to sleeping in which causes emotional stress, etc., it doesn't make sense to me. I think they should do these studies in your home, where conditions are as normal as they can be, honestly simulating your nightly sleeping pattern. Totally doesn't make any type of logical sense to me.
L o R i
Can you imagine the cost of a full week of sleep lab studies? And who here is crazy enough to put up with that anyway?
However, a week at home with a well-fitted mask and an auto PAP then interpret the results ... now that sounds like a much more successful way to approach this!
However, a week at home with a well-fitted mask and an auto PAP then interpret the results ... now that sounds like a much more successful way to approach this!
The CPAPer formerly known as WAFlowers
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[quote="WAFlowers"]Can you imagine the cost of a full week of sleep lab studies? And who here is crazy enough to put up with that anyway?
However, a week at home with a well-fitted mask and an auto PAP then interpret the results ... now that sounds like a much more successful way to approach this!
However, a week at home with a well-fitted mask and an auto PAP then interpret the results ... now that sounds like a much more successful way to approach this!
L o R i
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Huh!!! I am so insulted. But you just wait, I am actually being silent on this. You have no idea what is going on, do you??? There, I proved it. If I had a smiley that showed someone making that raspberry noise, I would insert it. But since I don't...WAFlowers wrote:Hah hah hah! Ho ho ho! Hee Hee. Ha. That's one of the best laughs I've had in a long time .Sleepless on LI wrote:Till then, I am staying closed-mouthed, which for me is a tremendously hard thing to do!!!
L o R i