need help with a "new" Sullivan machine

mr_azrad · Post by **mr_azrad** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:56 pm

Unfortunately a remote relative of mine died recently. When her property was being distributed by her next of kin, a Bi-PAP machine was given to me (because I'm the only person they know that uses CPAP.) I did not receive a manual of any kind.

I did some digging on the internet and it appears this is the machine I received:
http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/third_tie ... d_VPAP.htm
A ResMed Sullivan VPAP II

Now I use a normal CPAP machine was a pressure setting of 12. I don't know much about Bi-PAPs but this one appears to be set at 16 (breath in) and 8 (breath out).

I'd like to set this machine up as a backup machine or maybe put it out by the couch (so i can take couch naps again!).

Basically what I'm looking for is help with the following:

1. Is this machine even suitable for me (since I'm a CPAP user and not a Bi-PAP user)?

2. If it is suitable what setting would the users here recommend?

3. How would I go about making these changes to the settings?
Update: I figured out how to enter the setting mode: Turn the machine off with the power switch in back, hold down the 3 right hand buttons while you turn it back on.

Thank you for any help.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Hi

This manual is for the normal CPAP of the same series (shape) so hopefully the instructions on entering the clin mode will be the same.
http://www.internetage.ws/cpapdata/manu ... global.pdf

As a workable ROT (Rule of thumb) for converting your cpap titration to a Bilevel setup, this is a fairly safe ROT.

Set the epap setting to 2 under your titration & set ipap to 1 over your titration (ie.e in your case 12 -2 = epap of 10 & 12 +1 = ipap of 13)

You can always experiment with dropping the ipap back to 12 or raising the epap to 11 if you find it gives better results but am pretty confident
this will work for you.

I am not 100% sure if the Sullivan II Vpap downloads nightly data but if it has a 9-pin serial port chances are it does & I may have a copy of the software that will work with it (AutoScan 3.0). All you will need is a PC and a 9-pin to 9-pin NULL MODEM cable plus a PC with a serial port.

Have fun

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:42 pm

Did some quick research & located this pic of the button panel, so hopefully we can work out what to try pushing to get into clin mode.

This is flying blind as I can't quite make out the info in the pic, but ...

My 1st guess (based on how the S6 works and from the info in the Sullivan V (5) manual, is try holding down the two buttons in the middle group of 4 on the right of the panel. Hold them down together for 5 secs & see if that shows info on the display on the left.

Hopefully it will & you can set epap & ipap - post info on what the writing is on the right side of the display panel (the display panel is the green square on the left)

I think you will then need to press the stop & perhaps the fartherst button to exit clin mode. It alos looks like 2 of the buttons change the current setting & the other 2 step between the settings. You may need to do a trial-n-error session to figure this out.

DSM

mr_azrad · Post by **mr_azrad** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:45 pm

Thank you for the reply and the manual link.

dsm wrote: As a workable ROT (Rule of thumb) for converting your cpap titration to a Bilevel setup, this is a fairly safe ROT.

Set the epap setting to 2 under your titration & set ipap to 1 over your titration (ie.e in your case 12 -2 = epap of 10 & 12 +1 = ipap of 13)

You can always experiment with dropping the ipap back to 12 or raising the epap to 11 if you find it gives better results but am pretty confident
this will work for you.

I tried these settings, the ipap setting of 13 felt just right, although exhaling felt much easier than my normal CPAP which makes it feel kind of weird. Although I didn't actually try to sleep with this set up yet, just put it on my face and laid down for a few mins.

dsm wrote: I am not 100% sure if the Sullivan II VPAP downloads nightly data but if it has a 9-pin serial port chances are it does & I may have a copy of the software that will work with it (AutoScan 3.0). All you will need is a PC and a 9-pin to 9-pin NULL MODEM cable plus a PC with a serial port.

I have no experience with getting information out of my CPAP machine although I'm pretty computer savvy and this does sound interesting. According to the advertisement for the machine:

advertisement wrote:Patient compliance is the key to ensuring successful therapy. VPAP II series devices track compliance by recording the number of mask-on hours by the presence of mask pressure. This data can be downloaded directly or via modem.

Looking at the machine there is what appears to be a phone jack on the side of it. Is this what you mean? I don't see anywhere else to make a data connection.

Also while playing with the settings I found an option to put it in "CP" mode which grays out all the other settings except "IPAP". This sounds like to me it might be possible to use this as a conventional CPAP. Does that sound right? If so would you recommend this being set to 12 or 13 (considering my normal pressure is 12 on my other CPAP)?

If I can start to get data out of this thing, I might make this my primary machine. It would be nice to have this data.
Thanks again!

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:30 pm

mr_azad

The data gathered (from the description you listed) is compliance only (not detailed nightly data). The Autoset-T does provide detailed data & it was out at the same time the Sullivan II was current but it is an Auto rather than a Bilevel, also having a phone line port confirms to me the data is compliance only.

(AFAICT), Bilevels didn't really start providing detailed data until Respironics released the Bipap Pro II & Resmed the Vpap III.

Also, I am pretty sure CP is cpap mode & the IPAP becomes the setting.

Good luck

DSM

mr_azrad · Post by **mr_azrad** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:35 pm

dsm wrote: Hopefully it will & you can set epap & ipap - post info on what the writing is on the right side of the display panel (the display panel is the green square on the left)

I've figured out how to navigate the menus.

In mode "S" the writing on the screen says (after I made some changes):

Code: Select all

Screen:                                  Corresponding writing on case (to the right of the screen):

Mode: S                                  (nothing)
IPAP: 13.0                               cmH2O
EPAP: 11.0                               cmH2O
IPAPmax: .2                              SEC
(funny shaped line): MIN                 (nothing)

In mode "CP" the writing says:

Code: Select all

Mode: CP                                (nothing)
IPAP: 13.0                              cmH2O

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:40 pm

mr_azad

Typically on a bilevel (even that vintage) you get a choice to set the risetime (time it takes to switch from epap to ipap)

This can be 1-6 or can be entered as 100-600 where the 100-600 is a range of millisecs (typically as 6 choices)
Some eaqrly bilevels had a switch that offered 2 or 3 positions for changing risetime. (#2 3 or 300 ms is a good start).

The setting you mentioned that had a funny line, may represent the RAMP time, but that looks like it is set using
the 3 left buttons in the right group of 4.

DSM

mr_azrad · Post by **mr_azrad** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:47 am

Well I tried it last night and it seemed to work just fine. I feel normal this morning. My partner stated the machine was a little louder than normal but it wasn't a real issue. Thanks for helping get this set up DSM, I've been wanting a back up machine but couldn't really afford one. I'll set this baby out by the couch so I can take naps again, and should I ever have troubles with my regular machine I'll have a backup plan!

Thanks Again!

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:56 pm

mr_azrad wrote:Well I tried it last night and it seemed to work just fine. I feel normal this morning. My partner stated the machine was a little louder than normal but it wasn't a real issue. Thanks for helping get this set up DSM, I've been wanting a back up machine but couldn't really afford one. I'll set this baby out by the couch so I can take naps again, and should I ever have troubles with my regular machine I'll have a backup plan!

Thanks Again!

I am guessing that if you use it a few times, you may well get to prefer it

DSM

Bilevel therapy is for most of us, a vastly superior form of respiration - better mask management, better more natural feel.

turbosnore · Post by **turbosnore** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:18 am

dsm wrote:mr_azad

The data gathered (from the description you listed) is compliance only (not detailed nightly data). The Autoset-T does provide detailed data & it was out at the same time the Sullivan II was current but it is an Auto rather than a Bilevel, also having a phone line port confirms to me the data is compliance only.

(AFAICT), Bilevels didn't really start providing detailed data until Respironics released the Bipap Pro II & Resmed the Vpap III.

Also, I am pretty sure CP is cpap mode & the IPAP becomes the setting.

Good luck

DSM

I know somebody who has S6 Sullivan and needs to get access to the data.
What PC-connection does it use? Are there other ports? Do you need a modem to talk to the machine?
I guess S6 sullivan CPAP uses the same ways of downloading compliance data than this one.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re the S6 Sullivan, I am not sure of how to get any data off it (I don't think it recorded data). That began (AFAICT) with the Autoset-T then the S7 shaped models (Spirit & Elite & VPAP III).

I have had a REsmed machine called the 'CPAP B' (pre S6 & looked just like one) & have seen various other S6 designated models, but I don't think they provided detailed data. I have used an Autooset-T & it did (& still does) deliver nightly data via null modem cable. Uses Autoscan Ver 3.x

Good luck

DSM

turbosnore · Post by **turbosnore** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:42 am

The first concern is the compliance data.
In the clinical manual it only shows that there is a port for PC, modem or ResControl connection.

About downloading the compliance data, the manual says:

DOWNLOADING COMPLIANCE DATA
The Elite model records up to 365 nights of patient compliance data that can be
downloaded. Please refer to your AutoScan software manual for details.

It doesn't seem to have LCD.

I guess it's something like Autoset Spirit remote data access(clinician's manual) :

REMOTE DATA ACCESS
You can download data from an AUTOSET SPIRIT unit in your patient’s home to
AUTOSCAN 3.4 software on your computer using modems. Both you and your
patient require a modem set up for this purpose. The patient attaches the modem
to the right communications port on the AUTOSET SPIRIT unit and to a phone line.
You attach your modem to the serial port on your computer and a phone line. This
arrangement gives you full access to all stored data plus the ability to view and
change settings on the AUTOSET SPIRIT unit. Refer to complete instructions for
modem use in the AutoScan 3.4 Clinician’s Manual.

Could it be that the machine has built-in auto-answering modem?

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:07 pm

Ahaaa, of course !

You have just reminded me that some models of the S6 'did' gather compliance data but whereas I have only ever done it via null modem cables (Autoset-T & S7), as you pointed out the older S6 did it via a phone cable connector & modem. I had forgotten about those old modem based models & I do know that the earliest models of the Puritan Bennett (PB318, PB418, Knightstar: PB320, PB330, etc: ) & also early Respironics (pre tank) would also use a phone connector & modem to allow remote access. The access varied by model. Few provided more than compliance data. Some would provide remote control but these usually needed a special controller at the other end of the line (e.g. PB330 Knightstar).

DSM

turbosnore · Post by **turbosnore** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:02 pm

I just wondered the RJ11-connector. As if there is a modem inside, and the cable goes from machine to the telephone wall socket.
On the other hand, in old S7 manual it says that also a modem is needed, so it's a serial cable.
What in earth could the pin order be (4 contacts).

Anyhow, the machine proved to not be "elite"-version, so there is no compliance data to download
and thus no need for the cable.

Darn!

Thanks DSM - learning never hurts.

need help with a "new" Sullivan machine

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