Re: Wake-Up Pill for Excessive Sleepiness

debtheveg · Post by **debtheveg** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 am

Hi Everyone,

I've been to a OSA support group meeting today where my sleep specialist was a guest speaker.

Amongst many questions and topics he spoke on, was the subject of still being sleepy and feeling awful in the mornings despite cpap (or in my case, mandibular splint) compliance. Last year I tried cpap for two months, feeling worse each day than before treatment. I've now been using the oral device for two and a half months still with no improvement. When on cpap, all readouts indicated it was working and my apneas had all but ceased.

However, the specialist said today, that in his experience, there is a large minority of people who, despite compliance and all indications of therapy working, patients continue to feel awful and get no benefit. He thought perhaps 10 to 25% of patients. I obviously fall into that category.

He mentioned that he can prescribe one of two medications available that make you wake up and feel more energetic. The first he mentioned - which I can't remember the name of - he said was expensive and not subsidized by the (Aus) government. The second (again I didn't take note of the name) he said works well but got a bad reputation in the '60s. He reluctantly prescribes the second as he has to write to the Dept. of Health for permission to use it as it can cause bad side-effects, some being moodiness, a few other things and ... death!

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of these medications. I see him again in a few weeks and I definitely will ask if the first one might help me. If it's that expensive, I'd happily just use it one or two days a week - anything not to feel this bad ALL the time.

Thanks,

Deborah

cpapsue · Post by **cpapsue** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:59 am

The first pill is probably Provigil. I am using temporarily to see if it helps at 200 mg a day, but don't always feel a huge improvement. It is expensive - about $400 for 30 pills in the US. If you do a search for Provigil here, you'll see how others feel about it.

I have no idea what the other medication might be, sorry.

debtheveg · Post by **debtheveg** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:21 am

Thanks Cpapsue. Just checked it out - very interesting. Will now google.

Deb

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:52 am

If it was me, I would contact my Sleep Specialist and ask for the names of these drugs. Then I would research and them and talk to my GP and my Pharmacist about them.

You also need to get checked out for other possible reasons for this morning feeling that are not related to sleep apnea. It could be a simple as a vitamin deficiency but you need to find out. Do you have other medical conditions and are you on medications that could have this side effect?

Another question I have is about your "sleep hygiene". Are you going to bed at a reasonable time? Are you getting a reasonable amount of sleep each night? Are you getting up at about the same time each morning? Are you eating too close to bedtime (within a couple of hours)? Are you drinking alcoholic beverages in the evening? Are you using too much or too little humidity?

I think there are a lot things to check out before you take such a medication.

Arizona-Willie · Post by **Arizona-Willie** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:58 am

If you search a bit on the net you can find Provigil for as little as $2 a pill from India.
People claim it is as good as / or better / than the expensive pills from American pharmacies.

carbonman · Post by **carbonman** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:09 am

THE PUSHER

From the 1968 release "Steppenwolf"

Words and music by Hoyt Axton

You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
With the love grass in his hand
Oh but the pusher is a monster
Good God, he's not a natural man
The dealer for a nickel
Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams
Ah, but the pusher ruin your body
Lord, he'll leave your, he'll leave your mind to scream

DoriC · Post by **DoriC** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:08 am

Carbonman, good to see you here wide awake and in your usual great form!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:31 am

You are better off eating bananas than taking pills for your OSA -
viewtopic/t40884/Banana-helps-Sleep-Apn ... alert.html

I guess the didg didn't work either did it?

CPAP is the gold standard for treating OSA ... you are just wasting time and money on all those other so-called "alternatives" ... not to mention damaging your body and risking death without proper OSA treatment.

carbonman · Post by **carbonman** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:09 pm

DoriC wrote:Carbonman, good to see you here wide awake and in your usual great form!

DoriC, thanks, it is good to be seen.

.......more wide awake than I have been, maybe, my entire life......

and love'n every minute.....

junie · Post by **junie** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:33 pm

I've been taking PROVIGIL for about one year now,I'm still waiting for that special day. Not happening yet
I'm still waiting for that day. That will never happen.with this pill

roster · Post by **roster** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:14 pm

Deb,

A thick beef steak every other night should help. Bacon wrapped is better.

Which machine do you have? How do you monitor the number of apneas and hypopneas and mask leak? Compliance alone does not make the therapy effective.

Regards,

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:23 pm

I'm guessing you've been worked up for other poosible medical causes. Any indications there could be limb movements disrupting your sleep?

debtheveg · Post by **debtheveg** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:39 pm

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies.

Kteague, no I don't have limb movements, though I do seem to wake some nights from dreams that have something scarey happening. I'm aware of an adrenalin surge which seems to wake me.

Rooster, let's not go down that path again! I'm NOT anemic. Can't remember the machine I had hired for two months, but all the data indicated the machine was working - just not having any positive affect on me.

Sharperjudy, that doesn't give me much hope.

Dreamstalker, believe me, I have been having a banana before bed since reading about the possible benefits. Certainly won't hurt. Haven't yet tried the didgeridoo - but do intend to at some stage.

Hawthorne, for some time now I have taken and continue to take many vitamins and minerals as well as eating well. Other than being diagnosed with severe oesophogitis and taking medication for that, I'm, apparently, well. And yes, I know all about sleep hygiene. Haven't had alcohol since before having kids 26 years ago - though I'm starting to be tempted! Before mentioning insomnia to my dr (who then sent me for sleep studies etc. and then the OSA diagnosis) I had tried hypnosis, acupuncture, Buddhist meditation, a naturopath, etc, etc.

I really am reluctant to start the pill merry-go-round but I'm getting desperate.

According to my sleep specialist 10 - 25% of osa patients, despite cpap treatment appearing to be successful, do not and will not feel better. Is that the experience of some of you out there?

Thanks again,

Deb

roster · Post by **roster** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:23 pm

debtheveg wrote: ...............
According to my sleep specialist 10 - 25% of osa patients, despite cpap treatment appearing to be successful, do not and will not feel better. Is that the experience of some of you out there?

Thanks again,

Deb

Deb,

I think "appearing to be successful" is the key phrase. My doctor said the same thing. But then she writes a prescription for a ridiculous pressure range of 5 to 20. This rarely works. So if I guess if I would use my machine at that pressure she counts compliance hours and says the therapy "appears to be successful". But the setting is wrong and the therapy is not working properly.

IMO, you need good data-monitoring capability at home and you need to analyze it yourself regularly.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:35 pm

rooster wrote:
debtheveg wrote: ...............
According to my sleep specialist 10 - 25% of osa patients, despite cpap treatment appearing to be successful, do not and will not feel better. Is that the experience of some of you out there?

Thanks again,

Deb
Deb,

I think "appearing to be successful" is the key phrase. My doctor said the same thing. But then she writes a prescription for a ridiculous pressure range of 5 to 20. This rarely works. So if I guess if I would use my machine at that pressure she counts compliance hours and says the therapy "appears to be successful". But the setting is wrong and the therapy is not working properly.

IMO, you need good data-monitoring capability at home and you need to analyze it yourself regularly.

She ain't gonna do it Rooster man ... she'll eat bacon-wrapped steak with a side of fried chicken butts day in and day out before she uses CPAP.