Can Snores keep you from feeling Rested?

Recently, I changed my APAP settings from 11-20 to 11-13. I was hoping to feel better-rested, but instead I have felt worse.

l took a look at my data last night, hoping that it would give me some guidance, and I saw that from the standpoint of AHI, this experiment has been very successful. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my AHI, which is usually 2-3 with the 11-20 range, was averaging less than 1. The only downside, if you want to call it that, is that with the machine limited to 13 cm, it couldn't "chase snores". What Respironics calls "vibratory snores" was definitely up.

But I feel more tired. Now, that may be emotional. I am having a tough time at the moment, and it could well be affecting my sleep.

What do you guys think? Is it possible that the 11-13, which is ideal from the standpoint of AHI, is not the most restful setting? l always thought AHI was the end-all & be-all.

I would appreciate any help I can get. I'm really tired of being tired.

Andy

andy88488 wrote:Recently, I changed my APAP settings from 11-20 to 11-13. I was hoping to feel better-rested, but instead I have felt worse.

l took a look at my data last night, hoping that it would give me some guidance, and I saw that from the standpoint of AHI, this experiment has been very successful. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my AHI, which is usually 2-3 with the 11-20 range, was averaging less than 1. The only downside, if you want to call it that, is that with the machine limited to 13 cm, it couldn't "chase snores". What Respironics calls "vibratory snores" was definitely up.

But I feel more tired. Now, that may be emotional. I am having a tough time at the moment, and it could well be affecting my sleep.

What do you guys think? Is it possible that the 11-13, which is ideal from the standpoint of AHI, is not the most restful setting? l always thought AHI was the end-all & be-all.

I would appreciate any help I can get. I'm really tired of being tired.

Andy

Have you TRIED CPAP mode? The pressure range jumps out at me as being what's keeping you from feeling rested. If the pressure changes are chasing snores all night, that could do it.
Are you doing nasal rinses/cleansing before bedtime? Nasal congestion, etc. can cause sounds that are interpreted as "snores", whether they are or not. A clear nasal passage helps cut down on those sounds.
Too much humidity can also cause nasal congestion and contribute to VS.


Den

Wulfman wrote:

andy88488 wrote:Recently, I changed my APAP settings from 11-20 to 11-13. I was hoping to feel better-rested, but instead I have felt worse.

l took a look at my data last night, hoping that it would give me some guidance, and I saw that from the standpoint of AHI, this experiment has been very successful. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my AHI, which is usually 2-3 with the 11-20 range, was averaging less than 1. The only downside, if you want to call it that, is that with the machine limited to 13 cm, it couldn't "chase snores". What Respironics calls "vibratory snores" was definitely up.

But I feel more tired. Now, that may be emotional. I am having a tough time at the moment, and it could well be affecting my sleep.

What do you guys think? Is it possible that the 11-13, which is ideal from the standpoint of AHI, is not the most restful setting? l always thought AHI was the end-all & be-all.

I would appreciate any help I can get. I'm really tired of being tired.

Andy

Have you TRIED CPAP mode? The pressure range jumps out at me as being what's keeping you from feeling rested. If the pressure changes are chasing snores all night, that could do it.
Are you doing nasal rinses/cleansing before bedtime? Nasal congestion, etc. can cause sounds that are interpreted as "snores", whether they are or not. A clear nasal passage helps cut down on those sounds.
Too much humidity can also cause nasal congestion and contribute to VS.


Den

I tried CPAP made a while ago, and didn't feel like it helped. I don't really rememberthe details. l could try it again, I guess. What pressure would you suggest? 13?

The original reason l went from 11-20 to 11-13 was to lessen the pressure changes. I can't really say that the smaller range has helped me feel rested.

Andy

You should be able to tell from your Encore reports, but 13 cm. sounds like a good place to start.


Den

The answer is yes, they can absolutely keep you from feeling rested. Iim a CPAP user, and a registered sleep tech. Auto PAP can be a great thing. I can also understand your desire to adjust your pressure, because I have done the same. The bottom line is though, that even I don't know what is going on in my own sleep and auto PAP can be way off too. Don't believe all the manufacturer claims. They make big bucks off autoPAP sales! When was the last time you had a sleep study? It seems that you would benefit from a study and a thurough walk-thru with your doctor. You seem to be a smart guy, so I'm sure you would get a lot of information from that experience. You'd also leave with a better understanding of why a set pressure, or at least a tight range is important. If you do go back, ask your doctor to show you the hypnogram and for him/her to show you the changes in your sleep as they relate to your pressure settings. If your doc can't / won't do that, get a new one.

To add to Den's suggestion - enuff snores can result in a drop of blood O2. So chasing snores is not a bad thing. When trying pressure look to eliminate as many snores as possible, so maybe 16 or 17? Your charts will give you that info.

Besides straight cpap, have you tried tracking your sleeping position?

Position could lead to increased snores and/or higher pressure requirements.

HTH

In my opinion, with that small of a range, you might be better at a CPAP pressure that handles most events. If not, try widening the pressure range just a bit to something like 11-15 or 11-16, that is unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you are saying.

I have a lot of digestive issues that wax and wane and are very cyclical. When I am in a bad cycle, or am stressed emotionally, my numbers jump up. Luckily, my pressure range of 12.8-17 still handles most events. I know most people on here stick with the whole integers for pressure (10.0, 11.0, etc.), but I find that 12.8 (for me) works really well when I'm falling asleep. I may bump it up to play around, but if it ain't broke...

stnytech wrote: Don't believe all the manufacturer claims. They make big bucks off autoPAP sales!

Do you mean sleep labs don't make bucks off repeated PSG's and therefore they shoud be believed?

Andy, you don't say how long you tried 11-13, nor do you say what you recommended pressure was, on the machine or in the PSG.

If you were snoring at 11-20, raising the minimum, to keep yourself from snoring is the way to go (or a high fixed pressure). With the minimum pressure close to the optimal, the maximum pressure doesn't get driven up so high. Its no wonder 11-13 didn't do the job. Was there anything in the data that made you choose 11-13?

tattooyou -Kenny Most people stick to full integers because they use machines that don't give them a choice.... I think its great to have a machine you can set up in fractions.

O.

ozij wrote:

stnytech wrote: Don't believe all the manufacturer claims. They make big bucks off autoPAP sales!

Do you mean sleep labs don't make bucks off repeated PSG's and therefore they shoud be believed?

Andy, you don't say how long you tried 11-13, nor do you say what you recommended pressure was, on the machine or in the PSG.

If you were snoring at 11-20, raising the minimum, to keep yourself from snoring is the way to go (or a high fixed pressure). With the minimum pressure close to the optimal, the maximum pressure doesn't get driven up so high. Its no wonder 11-13 didn't do the job. Was there anything in the data that made you choose 11-13?

tattooyou -Kenny Most people stick to full integers because they use machines that don't give them a choice.... I think its great to have a machine you can set up in fractions.

O.

I have had two sleep studies, both of which recommended 11 cm. I tried 11-13 for a little over a week. I chose the 11 because I was titrated at 11, and the 13 because based on my data, I thought I didn't have to go higher to deal with the Apneas. l thought that limiting the variance in pressure might improve my restedness.

So you would suggest raising the minimum to 12 or 13? And leaving the max at 20?

If 11 leaves you snoring - try rasing the minimum.
I couldn't say which is better, a narrow range, fixed pressure or a wide rangs - you'll:have to play it by ear.

(Typos edited...

Andy,

What's the 90% pressure your report gives you? I have done 3 sleep studies over the past 6 years and they all gave about 9 or 10 as a pressure. That is way too low for me because as soon as I got on an apap, it would give me a 90% pressure of closer to 15 or 16 (I can't remember). So I had set my pressure to 15 or 16 minimum and left 20 as the maximum.

I'm not 100% clear on remembering because I've since lost 60 lbs and have been able to lower my pressure to 10 (I think that's what it is -- I'm sorry I'm really not doing too well on memory this week since I've had a miserable cold).

But personally, I find that sleep studies aren't terribly helpful. I've found that my apap gives me the best info. Of course I'm not a sleep doctor nor sleep technician so I could be completely wrong but I can tell you that I feel much better since I got my apap last summer and started adjusting my pressure based on what I see with it.

Good luck to you
France

Andy.....

Snores are only an indicator of a possible O2 saturation problem. The bottom line is this: If you feel crappy, you may not be getting enough O2 in your bloodstream. The only way to know for sure is to measure yourself all night using a recording oximeter. If you are using your AHI scores to figure out the problem, you're only getting part of the picture. Use an oximeter and a data producing CPAP machine....and you'll solve the problem.

Gerald

frapilu wrote:Andy,

What's the 90% pressure your report gives you? I have done 3 sleep studies over the past 6 years and they all gave about 9 or 10 as a pressure. That is way too low for me because as soon as I got on an apap, it would give me a 90% pressure of closer to 15 or 16 (I can't remember). So I had set my pressure to 15 or 16 minimum and left 20 as the maximum.

I'm not 100% clear on remembering because I've since lost 60 lbs and have been able to lower my pressure to 10 (I think that's what it is -- I'm sorry I'm really not doing too well on memory this week since I've had a miserable cold).

But personally, I find that sleep studies aren't terribly helpful. I've found that my apap gives me the best info. Of course I'm not a sleep doctor nor sleep technician so I could be completely wrong but I can tell you that I feel much better since I got my apap last summer and started adjusting my pressure based on what I see with it.

Good luck to you
France

My 90% is 15.3, my Average Pressure is 13.1. Not really sure what the 90% number does for you. I did raise maximum pressure back to 20, and felt better, even though (ironically) my AHI numbers were much better at the 13 cm maximum pressure. So instead of knowing more than I did, I know less. I was under the impression that Snores were sort of false alarms, and that Apneas and Hypopneas were what mattered. But it doesn't seem like that's the case, at least not for me.

Andy

Andy,

In my opinion, you should put your lower pressure closer to your 90% pressure. I found that if my lower pressure was too low, I felt terrible because every time the pressure had to bump up, it gave me a mini-wake-up so I never slept deeply. When I put my pressure closer to my 90%, there was less bouncing up and down of my pressure and I slept deeper and felt better.

but that's just my opinion & my experience. Hope you get yours figured out because it really makes a difference to feel rested.

France

frapilu wrote:Andy,

In my opinion, you should put your lower pressure closer to your 90% pressure. I found that if my lower pressure was too low, I felt terrible because every time the pressure had to bump up, it gave me a mini-wake-up so I never slept deeply. When I put my pressure closer to my 90%, there was less bouncing up and down of my pressure and I slept deeper and felt better.

but that's just my opinion & my experience. Hope you get yours figured out because it really makes a difference to feel rested.

France

That makes sense, but I'm a little reluctant to put my minimum pressure so high. I guess I could try a range of 13-20.