Is it possible that I sleep better w/o CPAP?

Hello, been lurking for awhile, but just decided to bare-it-all in a post.
OK, here's the story. My wife was diagnosed with Severe sleep apnea several months ago, when she went in for her titatration, she said she got the best night's sleep she's had in years! She got a CPAP machine, and her sleep number is 6 (pressure).
She told me that I was showing signs of apnea, and wanted me to get a sleep study done. Even though I didn't think I had any of the signs of sleep apnea, I agree. In my younger years, I was told I could snore the paint off walls.
So, I go for the first test, and it was a nightmare. With all that stuff hooked up to me, I couldn't sleep. Apparently I slept for just under 2 hours and from that, they concluded that I was borderline between mild and moderate apnea, I think I remember 15 interruptions per hour, and they showed me where I stopped breathing for a couple minutes, and my SAO2 levels dropped (OSA?).
Fine, I need a CPAP machine. I go in for the second sleep study, the titration, and I'm REALLY tired (physically exhausting day)... Just to make sure I can sleep, I take an Ambien right before they hook me up. I fall right asleep, and sleep the whole night.
On the followup visit to the Doc, he gives me the results. MY sleep number is 12.
So last week I get my Respironics M series CPAP with c-flex (we have HIS and HERS matching machines!) and I start using it. Wow, 12 is a lot of pressure. I can't fall asleep with that blowing up my nose, thank goodness for the ramp feature.
The first night, barely any sleep, still getting used to the machine I guess. Second night more sleep but take off the machine at 4am because it is annoying the crap out of me. It gets better as the week goes on.
It has been getting better each night since I started, mostly. 12 doesn't seem so bad anymore.

Before I got the CPAP I slept pretty good. No complaints, no tiredness, usually woke up fairly refreshed.
Since I got the CPAP machine, I've had ALL the symptoms of not sleeping. Yawning all day, tired, waking up feeling not rested, etc.

Last night I got my best nights sleep in a week, want to know why? I took off the mask, after a half hour of not being able to sleep, and I fell right to sleep. I woke up this morning feeling refreshed and awake.
Exactly why am I doing this?

I'm waiting for my card reader so I can check my numbers closer, but right now the display on the CPAP says my AHI is under 2 and my leak rate is about 40. These numbers seem to be good compared to some of you guys and gals I've been reading about.

Anyone have any suggestions of what may need corrected? Do I just stick it out, and it gets better? I don't think it is a mask issue. I'm on my second mask (a Swift II) and I find it very comfortable. My c-flex is on 3 and my heated humidifier is on 3 also.

The only benefit I've gotten from CPAP, that I can see, is that my sinuses have never felt clearer after a night of CPAP therapy, but I'd rather be able to sleep at night.

Don't worry, I haven't given up. Tonight I'll try it again. It just seems pointless when it actually makes my sleep worse...

What you're going through is a "learning curve".
Hang in there.....keep it on at night and be thankful you found out before your body was ravaged by more years of OSA.

Best wishes,

Den

[quote="aaronp"]Hello, been lurking for awhile, but just decided to bare-it-all in a post.
OK, here's the story. My wife was diagnosed with Severe sleep apnea several months ago, when she went in for her titatration, she said she got the best night's sleep she's had in years! She got a CPAP machine, and her sleep number is 6 (pressure).
She told me that I was showing signs of apnea, and wanted me to get a sleep study done. Even though I didn't think I had any of the signs of sleep apnea, I agree. In my younger years, I was told I could snore the paint off walls.
So, I go for the first test, and it was a nightmare. With all that stuff hooked up to me, I couldn't sleep. Apparently I slept for just under 2 hours and from that, they concluded that I was borderline between mild and moderate apnea, I think I remember 15 interruptions per hour, and they showed me where I stopped breathing for a couple minutes, and my SAO2 levels dropped (OSA?).
Fine, I need a CPAP machine. I go in for the second sleep study, the titration, and I'm REALLY tired (physically exhausting day)... Just to make sure I can sleep, I take an Ambien right before they hook me up. I fall right asleep, and sleep the whole night.
On the followup visit to the Doc, he gives me the results. MY sleep number is 12.
So last week I get my Respironics M series CPAP with c-flex (we have HIS and HERS matching machines!) and I start using it. Wow, 12 is a lot of pressure. I can't fall asleep with that blowing up my nose, thank goodness for the ramp feature.
The first night, barely any sleep, still getting used to the machine I guess. Second night more sleep but take off the machine at 4am because it is annoying the crap out of me. It gets better as the week goes on.
It has been getting better each night since I started, mostly. 12 doesn't seem so bad anymore.

Before I got the CPAP I slept pretty good. No complaints, no tiredness, usually woke up fairly refreshed.
Since I got the CPAP machine, I've had ALL the symptoms of not sleeping. Yawning all day, tired, waking up feeling not rested, etc.

Last night I got my best nights sleep in a week, want to know why? I took off the mask, after a half hour of not being able to sleep, and I fell right to sleep. I woke up this morning feeling refreshed and awake.
Exactly why am I doing this?

I'm waiting for my card reader so I can check my numbers closer, but right now the display on the CPAP says my AHI is under 2 and my leak rate is about 40. These numbers seem to be good compared to some of you guys and gals I've been reading about.

Anyone have any suggestions of what may need corrected? Do I just stick it out, and it gets better? I don't think it is a mask issue. I'm on my second mask (a Swift II) and I find it very comfortable. My c-flex is on 3 and my heated humidifier is on 3 also.

The only benefit I've gotten from CPAP, that I can see, is that my sinuses have never felt clearer after a night of CPAP therapy, but I'd rather be able to sleep at night.

Don't worry, I haven't given up. Tonight I'll try it again. It just seems pointless when it actually makes my sleep worse...

I agree. Be aware of mouth leaks. And don't give up. You just started. You can't get used to this without some time. Imagine how long it took you to learn to do things like walk and talk, a few weeks on the hose aren't out of line before giving up. My machine has changed my life. I have intensively researched alternate therapies and surgeries and now that I'm used to the hose, anything else seems like a ridiculous proposition.

I've been on the hose since June. The crititcal issues for most are: mouth leaks or full face masks (if tolerated), getting a mask that fits properly.

If you have been lurking you have likely read all the posts about DOCUMENTED SCIENTIFIC FACTS that are indisputable about how untreated apnea WILL shorten your life--and make your quality of life inferior. Aren't you worth it?

I firmly believe (and luckily so does my husband) that spending money, even going into a small amount of debt if need be, is worth it if that is what it takes to find the right mask. I have tried probably 70-80% of the masks on the market or more and keep coming back to the one that fits me best. The swift II, but every face and every nostril is different. You have to find what works for you. People are trading and selling masks on the mask roulette thread. Invest in some control II disinfectant and join in the roulette if you need to find a mask that is more comfortable.

Jen

Yes. In the early days, you WILL sleep better without the xpap machine.

However, you will sleep even better and FEEL BETTER IN THE MORNING once you learn how to use the machine 100%. I didn't believe this either at your stage. It took me 8 masks in 6 weeks to find a mask that would be my "breakthrough". I'm now 100% compliant.

Now, here's a warning - after that breakthrough, you will still have bad days. You will still have bad nights. That's life. It happens. There's now a new host of variables to tweak that weren't there before xpap. But overall, you should notice a difference.

I'm better able to handle stress. And trust me, I've had a very stressful summer.

I'm MUCH more creative than I used to be. I made 4 pairs of earrings last week. I hadn't done so much jewelry making in YEARS! It's a hobby I'd lost interest in while fighting for survival.

Initially, I lost 6 pounds.

So, hang in there, keep venting, keep whining, and KEEP TRYING NEW THINGS AT NIGHT. Try a different mask, a different pillow, a different room temperature, PurSleep, a different machine, a different pressure setting, etc. etc.

Cheers,
Babs

aaronp,

Isn't that annoying!?
I can be delightfully drowsy UNTIL I have to put my %@$# gear on.
Downright ticks me off.

That's my saying: "I used to suffer from Sleep Apnea, now I suffer from CPAPnea."

And then I remind my self that suffering from severe insomnia; depression and muscle aches and pains ticked me off even more.
*heavy sigh

-Bev

ZZZzzz.

That may pass with time. I fall asleep so much faster now. I used to lay there for hours before falling asleep, pre-cpap. Now putting it on is like taking a sleeping pill!

Jen

I'm waiting for my card reader so I can check my numbers closer, but right now the display on the CPAP says my AHI is under 2


And what was it last night without CPAP?

A 2 on the machine means the machine is working, not that you don't need the machine.

Is it a pain to get used to? Yup, but it's easier to get used to than a coffin.

Want to get real numbers? Get ahold of an Oximeter and see what your O2 level is with and without the machine. I know for me it was 95-98 with the machine, and 61 without. That's the equivalent of not breathing 24 minutes out of each hour.

So, then how does one overcome all this strange stuff when sleeping? Get used to it when awake. Put it on and watch TV for awhile when your awake. (it wont hurt you to use it when not sleeping, honest, it's only air) 12 seems like a lot of pressure right now. I find that when if first turn on my machine it's like WOW That's a lot of air, then when I wake up in the morning it's like normal breathing (still same pressure - 17.5 btw ).

As you get more used to it, you become (as someone else put it) Pavlov's sleeper. You put on the mask, you become tired. It becomes the cue to go to sleep.

Good Luck, and don't give up!

ZZZzzz wrote:"I used to suffer from Sleep Apnea, now I suffer from CPAPnea."

And then I remind my self that suffering from severe insomnia; depression and muscle aches and pains ticked me off even more.
*heavy sigh

-Bev

Bev, I LOVE that one! I used to think that sleep apnea was merely a sleep disorder--at least until I started doing some research and found the forum. Back then drbandage was quite prominent here (an MD and OSA victim). That's when I learned that the sleep disruption effects of OSA are rather mild (don't get me wrong, sleep deprivation is real and serious) compared to a more compelling factor: blood oxygen desaturation.

There is no stronger signal to the body than the lack of oxygen. All heck breaks loose. On top of panic hormones (released because you're, in fact, on your way to death), the body shunts off oxygen to everything else in favor of the brain. Doctors are just now realizing that untreated OSA is causally responsible for all kinds of other conditions like hypertension, stroke, heart disease, diabetes, depression, etc. It's no small wonder and makes perfect sense in light of what happens during desaturation.

So aaron, it's hard to judge what's happening during the night by how you "feel" based on traditional sleep measures. That said, it is unusual for daytime sleepiness to persist after using cpap--or to appear to result from it. It sounds to me like something is not working with respect to your treatment, as others have pointed out (mask leaks, mouth breathing, etc.). It also sounds like your sleep study may have been only marginally successful in terms of providing a firm diagnosis?

I mainly just wanted to point out that if you have OSA (and it sounds like you do or your doctor wouldn't have put you on a cpap with a relatively high pressure no less after a titration) you're dealing with something that's much, much more than a sleeping disorder. Treatment is critical--this is serious business.

Keep at it--glad you found the forum. It's a great place.

BTW, has anyone bothered to tell Aaron to try Pur-Sleep? (Aaron, the laughter stems from the previous poster being the owner of the company...)

Aaron, check out this website: http://www.pursleep.com. Many of us use it. It's pleasant and enjoyable. HOWEVER... It has been a GODSEND for some people. It has seriously upped some people's compliance hours. For me, one particular combo (Peace and Comfort) seems to induce very deep and lengthy sleep.

It seemed stupid to me at first. Then, in a hormonal rush of wanting to buy something (every woman experiences this at least ONCE a month) I bought the starter pack, and I've used it every night since.

I mention that it might help your transition period. I got it after I'd had my six week breakthrough, but it's increased my ability to feel relaxed and peaceful about masking up. Helps me fall asleep faster, leads to deeper sleep.

BTW, my breakthrough happened at 6 weeks. EVERYONE's mileage varies as far as that goes. Sorry to tell you that. Let's just say I'm lucky in cpap, unlucky in cards, the lottery, and my love life.

Good luck!
Barbara

Babette-

First of all let me thank you for your many posts. I've enjoyed reading so many of them (does "ball-gag" ring a bell?). Anyway, I just posted how frustrated I am in another post but I'm only 6 weeks in. Reading your posts and some of the others is helping me to stick with it. I know it's going to be a long road but I'd sure like to feel as if I were at least moving with traffic. Anyway, thanks for your lively spirit!

My Dear Mr. Boone... (She flutters her fan)

Why thank you, Sirrah! (Drops a deep curtsy, showing ample cleavage)

Greatly enjoying your screen name. Keeps reminding me of the stunning redhead who played Daniel Boone in the History Channel movie "Boone & Crockett: The Hunter Heros". I don't know him, just have drooled over him from afar at many a historic reenactment...

Do hang in there. Find whatever crutch you need to get through the rough patch. Don't be ashamed of pills or whatever it's going to take. It should only be temporary.

I did 8 masks in 6 weeks before I found one I could live with. This is a spendy hobby until you can find a "mate" but I believe worth it in the long run.

Keep Yer Powder Dry! (And your hose...)
Babette La Mauvaise