OT: calling light sleepers, how do you remedy?

i'm declaring this subject as off topic to perhaps get ahead of the pedantic. plus, i kind of feel it IS off topic.

a couple of years ago, i was pretty excited about going on the cpap machine and taking care of my sleep apnea. like many folk, i truly thought that by getting control of my apnea, that everything about my sleep would be resolved. i thought that i would sleep an uninterrupted sleep. the kind i've never had in my life!

turns out, not so much. i HAVE my numbers down. and i truly feel better when i awake. no more pesky headaches. more energy returned. and of course zero to NO bathroom trips in the wee (HA!) hours. so i should be pretty good, right?

<sigh> i'm still a tad bit "worried" about the light sleep i'm getting. i thought that when i mastered my sleep apnea that my sleep would be deeper and, i guess, more fulfilling. but that hasn't happened at all. i still sleep lightly. i wake up more than i would like to in the night. i can (and do) wake up once an hour.

i'm not saying i have insomnia, unless my definition of the word is way off. i have no trouble getting back to sleep. but still it bothers me. and i would like to see what it's like to not wake up so often during my sleep.

with that said, i'm "reaching out" (i really don't like that phrase) to others who might be now or have been light sleepers. what do you do about it?

i will mention that melatonin isn't the answer for me. all that does is make me sleepy before bed and i have never had trouble falling asleep. ditto valerian.

what other things can anyone suggest?

thank you!

Zonker I sympathize. I don't know what to recommend but I am very similar. Since I had kids (and my oldest will be 30 in a few weeks) I've rarely fallen into that wonderful deep sleep. I have gotten it a few times which is why I am always chasing it but it rarely happens.

I believe as someone here so eloquently put it, a gnat fart will will wake me up. I look forward to seeing what suggestions you get.

Well...despite your not wanting to use the "insomnia" word...what you have is called sleep maintenance insomnia.
Waking often...even if you can go right back to sleep..falls into the sleep maintenance insomnia category.
You don't have to have trouble falling asleep to get under the "insomnia" umbrella.

I have no easy solution...everything comes with baggage. Stuff that makes you sleep a little deeper with less wake ups usually comes with the morning hangover & sleepy the next day price tag. At least that is what I have found with all the various stuff I have tried.

I have found that Benadryl helps me....I tend to fall asleep easily for several hours, and then I'm up. I doze and wake several times and then am up for good about 5 AM. If I wake around 3 I take a Benadryl and after a half hour, it knocks me out for a couple hours.

Zonker, would it be safe to assume since you've been around a while that you've already ruled out the common culprits and been unable to pinpoint possible causes?

All electronics are set to reduce brightness/blue light after 5PM...my phone and laptops. You don't realize the difference until you disable the setting and get blinded by the brightness. No caffeine after 12PM helps when I actually stick to it.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

i still sleep lightly. i wake up more than i would like to in the night. i can (and do) wake up once an hour.

i'm not saying i have insomnia, unless my definition of the word is way off. i have no trouble getting back to sleep. but still it bothers me. and i would like to see what it's like to not wake up so often during my sleep.

Some people are just light sleepers. Sometimes there are things you can do... but, keep in mind that it's *normal* to wake up between sleep cycles, or be very very nearly awake, and sometimes just a little more stimulus will wake you up enough to remember it. And, the stuff on your head, and the mask is a little more stimulus.

Making sure you're as comfortable as possible may help, and the room is as dark and quiet as you can get it.

Perhaps using earplugs... or a white noise generator. (I prefer the earplugs, myself). (if I had ears, that is).

Also, if you've got assorted aches and pains, a little pain medication may help.

etc.

My hubby has always been a light sleeper. One of those people who hear the alarm click before it comes on. He also jerks a lot in his sleep. He tried taking tylenol pm but says it makes him too groggy the next day. I read something the other day about drinking a glass of tonic water before bed to help keep you from jerking awake. I will let you know if it works or not.

I'm in the same situation. I used to sleep through everything, but not anymore. I set up a real dark cool room and started wearing ear plugs. Blue light filters on all electronics. Melatonin does the same for me, helps you get to sleep but doesn't help keep you asleep. Tried many things and have not figured out an answer other than trying to get as many hours of sleep as possible to make up for the poor quality. Rarely feel completely rested or energetic.

Xpap has helped a ton, but obviously there are other things going on. I still feel like I'm being woken up by the limited number of apnea events I'm still having. The next thing I'm going to try is switching to a Resmed machine from my PR machine. I here the Resmeds are quicker to react to any breathing problems. It would be awesome if that is the case and I maybe wouldn't wake up as many times. I hope you can get a break and figure out something, or several things that will help you get a better quality of sleep.

It's nice having you here, zonker. I mean that.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . i truly thought that by getting control of my apnea, that everything about my sleep would be resolved. . . . turns out, not so much.

I hoped the same thing at first. I think it is an assumption that many, if not most, of us made. But I think that overall expectation only becomes a reality for a minority of youngish people with minor short-term issues. OSA taught us to sleep wrong. That baggage doesn't magically evaporate (I love mixing metaphors!) if we were longtime sufferers from serious sleep-breathing problems. Severe OSA can be its own trauma, in a sense, with its own stress syndrome, similar to PTSD. The brain can become hypervigilant in keeping an eye/ear out for all the breathing events it assumes it is just missing somehow. That can go on for years for some people, even though their sleep-breathing war is over and they were discharged from it with honors.

CPAP solves one problem, perhaps the biggest problem for many of us. But solving the largest problem often unmasks the other things about our sleep that then need to be addressed systematically. Some starting out on CPAP tend to think of CPAP as "causing" the problems that CPAP has merely uncovered, so it is great you realize that is not the case for you.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . i HAVE my numbers down. and i truly feel better when i awake. no more pesky headaches. more energy returned. and of course zero to NO bathroom trips in the wee (HA!) hours. so i should be pretty good, right?<sigh> i'm still a tad bit "worried" about the light sleep i'm getting. . . .

You have an opportunity to experiment with positive approaches to sleep, so file at under "wonderful opportunity" to keep that "worry" from becoming counterproductive and toxic. You listed a lot of positives, and that is rightfully the place to keep the focus. Now if you can think about any additional tweaks as being fun things to try instead of last-ditch efforts to avoid a crash-and-burn failure, you are in the best place mentally and emotionally for improving insomnia-ish irritations. Since sleep is part physical, part mental, and part emotional, it is the attitude about the steps taken that can matter more than the steps themselves. Sorry to get all touchy-feely about it, but it is what it is.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . what other things can anyone suggest? . . .

If you make a full list of tweaks you've tried, some people here may be able to point out other tweaks that worked for them.

For some, a simple sleep mask over the eyes changed their lives, even though the bedroom was already completely dark. The brain simply learned that the sleep mask signaled safety of sleep and came to understand that it wouldn't do any good to open the eyes anyway when that piece of cloth is there.

For others, wearing thick warm loose socks and, at times, gloves was a similar signal to the brain, and the lack of circulation in the extremities as we get older and are asleep was no longer an issue for their brain.

For others, keeping all the clocks (including phones) out of reach with faces hidden helped train the brain that it wouldn't do any good for it to wake up, since it won't be able to find out what time it is anyway.

For others, timing hard exercise so that they are tired but not overly revved up at night was the key for them.

As mentioned, earplugs help many, even if the bedroom is already quiet. Just make sure you can still hear the smoke alarm.

The list goes on and on. But it's your brain to experiment on. Just don't reject anyone's ideas with an "oh, I tried something similar and that didn't work." Try it and enjoy trying it. It often isn't about the approach making any actual logical sense; it often is about stumbling onto what works for you that might not work for that many others.

But I repeat my point, if you don't mind, that it is best to do all this, not as fighting a big scary beast that is out to kill you, but as simple fun experimentation for making something that is already very good just a little bit better for you. In my experiences hearing and reading what others say about it, that seems to be the mind set that makes all the difference leading to improvements for them.

I consider this thread more on-topic than most of the other on-topic topics, myself.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:48 am

It's nice having you here, zonker. I mean that.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . i truly thought that by getting control of my apnea, that everything about my sleep would be resolved. . . . turns out, not so much.

I hoped the same thing at first. I think it is an assumption that many, if not most, of us made. But I think that overall expectation only becomes a reality for a minority of youngish people with minor short-term issues. OSA taught us to sleep wrong. That baggage doesn't magically evaporate (I love mixing metaphors!) if we were longtime sufferers from serious sleep-breathing problems. Severe OSA can be its own trauma, in a sense, with its own stress syndrome, similar to PTSD. The brain can become hypervigilant in keeping an eye/ear out for all the breathing events it assumes it is just missing somehow. That can go on for years for some people, even though their sleep-breathing war is over and they were discharged from it with honors.

CPAP solves one problem, perhaps the biggest problem for many of us. But solving the largest problem often unmasks the other things about our sleep that then need to be addressed systematically. Some starting out on CPAP tend to think of CPAP as "causing" the problems that CPAP has merely uncovered, so it is great you realize that is not the case for you.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . i HAVE my numbers down. and i truly feel better when i awake. no more pesky headaches. more energy returned. and of course zero to NO bathroom trips in the wee (HA!) hours. so i should be pretty good, right?<sigh> i'm still a tad bit "worried" about the light sleep i'm getting. . . .

You have an opportunity to experiment with positive approaches to sleep, so file at under "wonderful opportunity" to keep that "worry" from becoming counterproductive and toxic. You listed a lot of positives, and that is rightfully the place to keep the focus. Now if you can think about any additional tweaks as being fun things to try instead of last-ditch efforts to avoid a crash-and-burn failure, you are in the best place mentally and emotionally for improving insomnia-ish irritations. Since sleep is part physical, part mental, and part emotional, it is the attitude about the steps taken that can matter more than the steps themselves. Sorry to get all touchy-feely about it, but it is what it is.

zonker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

. . . what other things can anyone suggest? . . .

For others, wearing thick warm loose socks and, at times, gloves was a similar signal to the brain, and the lack of circulation in the extremities as we get older and are asleep was no longer an issue for their brain.

Interesting. I've worn long arm warmers to bed in winter time for years. I never even thought about it being part of my sleep routine.

Cynmatthes wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:13 pm

Zonker I sympathize. I don't know what to recommend but I am very similar. Since I had kids (and my oldest will be 30 in a few weeks) I've rarely fallen into that wonderful deep sleep. I have gotten it a few times which is why I am always chasing it but it rarely happens.

I believe as someone here so eloquently put it, a gnat fart will will wake me up. I look forward to seeing what suggestions you get.

well, so far, i've managed to avoid giving birth! i'm given to understand that you mothers have quite a few unexpected things change in your body after giving birth. but i didn't realize it could affect a woman's sleep.

LSAT wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:28 pm

I have found that Benadryl helps me....I tend to fall asleep easily for several hours, and then I'm up. I doze and wake several times and then am up for good about 5 AM. If I wake around 3 I take a Benadryl and after a half hour, it knocks me out for a couple hours.

i've read that a time or two here and in google searches, but had forgotten about it until you brought it up.

isn't this more of a "one off" type of fix and not meant to be a regular thing?

in any case, i'm putting that on the grocery list to see if it works for me.

thanks!

kteague wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:48 pm

Zonker, would it be safe to assume since you've been around a while that you've already ruled out the common culprits and been unable to pinpoint possible causes?

kteague, you credit me with more sense than i have! actually, not sure if i really have. are you referring in part to the list that chicago granny posts from time to time?

in that case, i'm not ready to start restricting my diet. i have cut my wine consumption down to two glasses per day. a glass = 1/2 wine and 1/2 water, wherein it used to be all wine and about 4 glasses. i haven't gotten down to just 1 or even none yet.

other than that, i can't think of any other restrictions i've placed on diet.

raisedfist wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:00 pm

All electronics are set to reduce brightness/blue light after 5PM...my phone and laptops. You don't realize the difference until you disable the setting and get blinded by the brightness. No caffeine after 12PM helps when I actually stick to it.

yup, i have filters on mine as well. haven't tried restricting caffeine yet. though i'm trying to get myself to start drinking green tea. (hey, kteague! i forgot about that dietary change.) not sure if the change to green tea will have any results on my light sleeping.