According to a Consumer Reports survey, " . . . 41 percent of doctors said their patients often showed up poorly informed because of bad information found online."

I just had to laugh. Thanks to cpaptalk I can imagine the percentage of sleep docs with this problem continues to grow.

The good news here is that physicians are beginning to realize their patients are conveying a message. Perhaps of more importance though is the fact that patients in large numbers apparently are exercising their god-given right to seek information independently rather than simply accepting pronouncements from a physician operating in auto-pilot mode who has neither the time nor inclination to adequately diagnose or treat the majority of health issues presented to him/her.

Regards,
Bill

I suspect that it is more the attitude of the physician being uncomfortable w/a patient having a good understanding of and wanting to take an active part in their medical treatment decisions than it is of patients getting bogus information on the internet.

Not to say that there aren't quack sites providing supposed health information but any reasonably intelligent person w/a modicum of common sense can easily weed out the questionable information.

For newbies to internet health information the easiest way to find reasonably reliable health information is to look for the HON code icon at any health related website.

The good news here is that physicians are beginning to realize their patients are conveying a message. Perhaps of more importance though is the fact that patients in large numbers apparently are exercising their god-given right to seek information independently rather than simply accepting pronouncements from a physician operating in auto-pilot mode who has neither the time nor inclination to adequately diagnose or treat the majority of health issues presented to him/her.

RIGHT ON, Bill! Do they even HEAR the patient past the 3rd symptom???

As a follow up to an ordered home auto-titration, my sleep doctor called me this evening to go over some info. Thanks to this forum, I felt like I had a fairly intellectual, informed conversation with him regarding my options. He mentioned the possibility of switching to an Apap, my pressure changes, we discussed leaks, mouth taping (I think I scared him on that one! lol) and my desire to be a more active participant in my care. He invited me to stop by his office tomorrow to get a copy of my studies which I had never asked for before in order to understand what all my changes were. He would also like me to repeat my overnight sleep study in a few months to see where I'm at and what changes WE need to make. All in all, it was a very positive conversation and I told him if he really wanted to know what patients wondered about, he ought to check out this website. He thought it was great that there was a forum like this and was going to explore it in his free time. He seemed very impressed at the different things I was learning here so who knows? Maybe some more good will result from this.

Most doctors are well intentioned and most are well qualified. However, at the end of the day, they are human and make mistakes. They see thousands of patients, and it's only natural that they can't be exactly right every time. If one of those mistakes is you, it is far more critical for the patient than the doctor. Being well informed means we are far more likely to pick up on this, and these days when it is so easy to access good quality information, like this forum, we are foolish if we don't take advantage of it. My doctors have been pleased that I'm showing up well informed.

I canot help but wondering what a similar poll on the quality and accuracy of information about docs from patients.
Docs, like pilots and house painters and ditch diggers vary greatly in their expertise and quality and accuracy of advice.
I can assure them and others her can also give examples of innacurate diagnosis and very poor advice.

We see far too often, examples of docs being totally ignorant in sleep dynamics and PAP equipment.
Many of the docs, of course, with their diety complex will remain in total denial regardless of the patients level of knowledge.

But the patients who learn from some of the sites for information are truly misinformed and the docs are right.
There will always be those seduced by the organic foods and megavitamin and health food stores and join in the irrationally informed cult.
MOST of these are pure BS.

Above was moi, tomjax.

I cannot figure out why I am logged out so often and there seems to be a problem almost every time I attempt to make a post.
It says there was an error and I have to click it a second time.

The computer gods hate me and are trying to punish moi.

tomjax

I've had the opportunity to know several doctors on a personal level. Too many of these docs are businessmen first, doctor second.

How this translates into patient care is pretty obvious.

During my childhood (50's & 60's) there was no such thing as the Internet. There was also very little mal-practice litigation. My childhood doctors & dentists took the time to get to know their patients. When my folks couldn't afford to pay, they would always "worry about that later".

My point is, the level of care then was at a higher level. Nowadays the docs have to see x amount of patients just to cover their inflated mal-practice insurance premiums. They simply don't have the luxury of spending quality time with their patients.

My contention is more people are seeking information from the Internet just because they're not getting it from their doctors. This puts the docs in a precarious situation. They won't admit to providing sub-standard care, yet they get their panties in a wad when the patients seek information elsewhere.

I can use myself as an example. Once I suspected I had OSA, I made an appointment with my PCP, explained my symptoms, and told him I suspected I was suffering from significant OSA. He the referred me to the sleep clinic. Had I not been aware of OSA and its symtoms from the Internet, I doubt he would have taken the time to find out during my office visit.

When I showed up for my initial consultation with the sleep doc, I was much more informed, and knew what questions to ask.

When I was officially diagnosed via a sleep study, I took that info and began investigating my options for successful treatment. Because of the help from this forum, and the availability of equipment on the Internet, I got to choose the direction my therapy would take, and when it would begin.

It's been nearly two months since my first sleep study, and I'm just going for my titration next week. Instead of waiting for that protracted time, and settling for the type of equipment my doc can make the most money on, I bought the machine I wanted and have been on APAP for two weeks now.

I will go forth with the titration study, but it's more to reinforce my own findings.

Long live the INTERNET!!!!

I can't say I'm very supprised at the numbers.

While there are obviously doctors out there who either aren't very good or simply don't care I think it's safe to say they are the serious minority.

What I see every day is people using the internet to self-diagnose thier own problems. This is obviously a very risky path to take, simply because we aren't doctors and can't possibly know the intricacies of symptoms and how they all relate. Obviously many of us are going to be smart enough to be able to figure things out for ourselves. Many more of us though are going to make mistakes. We are human - it's what we do.

Heck, my primary care doc and I chat whenever I'm in for a visit and we both have horror stories of simply astoundingly dangerous things patients have done while in our care. Everything from horrendously incorrect self-diagnosis to simply ignoring our advice because "they knew better" and putting themselves at great risk.
I think most all of us can relate to knowing someone who has gone from doctor to doctor to doctor looking for the one doc who will give them the answer they want to hear. They are convinced they have some disease and refuse to hear otherwise.
The internet has magnified this problem 1000% simply due to the ease of obtaining information.

There will always be stubborn people who refuse to see the truth on both sides of the issues - doctors and patients. There just always be be more patients since there are more of us than there are of them.

mattman

"What doctors are really thinking" -- comic

http://www.newstarget.com/021230.html

mattman wrote:... There will always be stubborn people who refuse to see the truth on both sides of the issues - doctors and patients. ....
mattman

You can also add DMEs into that short list

The smart person will strike a balance. Sel-diagnosis can be a dangerous thing, if not followed-up with a doctor's visit.

That being said, the people who do not inform themselves are at their doctor's mercy.

I have been treated for high blood pressure by four different doctors. Not ONE of them considered OSA as a possible contributor. I did, however, get a lot prescriptions.

I agree with your healthcare philosophy Rabid1.

... and I think it should be illegal for doctors to own stock in the pharmco industry.

DreamStalker wrote:I agree with your healthcare philosophy Rabid1.

... and I think it should be illegal for doctors to own stock in the pharmco industry.

I would guess the VAST MAJORITY of this forum's members (less the DME's) would agree.

DreamStalker wrote:

mattman wrote:... There will always be stubborn people who refuse to see the truth on both sides of the issues - doctors and patients. ....
mattman

You can also add DMEs into that short list

You're right. But you forgot to add Internet Providers, people who post on forums, ditch diggers, well washers, paper printers, wood workers... or in other words virtually every single thing ever that has ever involved a human being.

It's human nature. It's going to happen. Nice quick jab at me though!

mattman

Rabid1 wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:I agree with your healthcare philosophy Rabid1.

... and I think it should be illegal for doctors to own stock in the pharmco industry.

I would guess the VAST MAJORITY of this forum's members (less the DME's) would agree.

Why on Earth woudl you think the DME providers wouldn't agree? That doesn't even make sense.

mattman