Humidity

I've been having a terrible time with nasal swelling the last month or so. This of course impacts my CPAP therapy. Infact now it seems like using the CPAP makes it worse and every few hours I'm up because I feel like I can't breath.

My doctor thought it might be due to dryness that the CPAP is causing. I have been bumping up my CPAP humidifier to try to help but run into rainout of course. He also suggeseted valaline in my nose before using the CPAP.

Even during the day my nose feels dry and swollen inside (far back). I'm wondering what the normal room humidity level should be at? Mine is currently 37% Should I invest in a room humidifier to help during the day?

I need to figure out away to get this swelling under control.

The cpap air pressure will cause swelling and dryness in the nasal passages. I use Nasacort daily for my nose and also use a Saline nose spray before I go to bed to help keep the pasages clear and a little more moist.

Jim

your turbinates can have the same effect from too much moisture, that is their job to control moisture and temp of the air before it enters your lungs. Too much moisture and they become engorged with blood reducing air flow.

Check your ambient humidity, ours has been low down to 3% where normal is above 20%. I am always leary of room humidifiers as it is a breeding ground for black mold.

I would suggest:

1. Use a saline only spray before bed, I recommend a product called SimplySaline, comes in an small aerosol can with a great applicator so it can reach up deep into the turbinates and add moisture. A can lasts several months for me. There is other brands like Ocean but the applicator on the SimplySaline is awesome for getting it in the turbinates.

http://www.simplysaline.com/

2. Try a home made simple rhino rinse, again saline only solution about same PH as eye tears. It will flush out allergens that are causing the nasal congestion in the first place. Use it 2-3 times per week and you will feel much better with less congestion and you may even find your allergies are under better control. Made at home it is dirt cheap

This is all you need, you can also use a an irrigation syringe instead of the ear aspirator or even a netti pot.

JimH wrote:The cpap air pressure will cause swelling and dryness in the nasal passages. I use Nasacort daily for my nose and also use a Saline nose spray before I go to bed to help keep the pasages clear and a little more moist.

I have been on nasonex for about 4 years. Dr just switched me to flonase since the nasonex doesn't seem to be doing anything for me any more.

Snoredog wrote: 2. Try a home made simple rhino rinse, again saline only solution about same PH as eye tears. It will flush out allergens that are causing the nasal congestion in the first place.

I've been using Sinus Rinse nightly for about 2 months now. My ENT suggested it when I first started having problems. It was helping some for a while but this latest flair up has been uncontrollable so far.

http://www.sinusrinse.com/

Humidity should be about 50% in the winter time. Some humdidification systems put out more than others.

I have the nasal swelling and dryness. My doctor prescribed Nasonex before he referred me to an ENT. The ENT took me off the Nasonex and gave me samples of Nasacort AQ and Nasarel to try. He said the Nasarel might be better for controlling the dryness, but I'd have to use the brand name since the generic was made from a different base and would not help the dryness. I tried both, and the Nasacort AQ works best for me.

I use Entsol Spray before (10 to 30 minutes before), then Nasacort AQ a few minutes before I go to bed. Entsol is a buffered hypertonic saline nasal spray and has the long-reach spray to reach the back of the nose. It is preservative-free, drug-free, and natural. You can use the Entsol Spray up to 6 times a day, if problems persist during daytime.

I set my humidifier on 3. This helps with the nasal problems and I don't get rainout.

My breathing problems caused by nasal swelling have greatly decreased since I saw this ENT.

Hi James,

There is no normal or right humidity level. A lot depends on the season.

Anything less then 40% should be good to prevent mold.

In the winter, the colder it is the less the humidity should be to prevent condensation and ice forming on windows.

Are other family members complaining of bleeding noses. If yes, then increase the humidity just a bit.

In the winter, it is the fine balance between the condensation and the dry bleeding noses. Get the noses right and worry about the condensation during the extreme cold snaps.

Instead of getting a humidifier right away, hang some towels or laundry in the bedroom. As it drys it will add some moisture. Or open bowls of water.

Do you think the Flonase you switched to is making it worse?

Decongestions which act by drying up the nose make make swelling or dry nose worse.

I noticed that you have the humidity set at 1. That is way to low, to keep the nose moist. Up the humidity and figure out how to control the rain out, either with a fleece cover or an Aussie hose. I would work with the CPAP humidity before changing the house humidty, especially if others are ok.

Also during the day use the Nasal lubricating spray (hopefully the spray can go deeper into the nose) to keep the nose moist.

I would not use Vasoline in my nose.

After having nose problems for years (allergies, deviated septum, I came to the realization that a moist nose is a healthy nose. The nose may swell up to compincate for a dry nose.

I've been using Sinus Rinse nightly for about 2 months now. My ENT suggested it when I first started having problems. It was helping some for a while but this latest flair up has been uncontrollable so far.

What happened to make it worse?

Are you changing the disposable filters?
Are you watching the resuable filter every two weeks or more often if needed.

I hope you figure it out soon.

For me, the cold, passover humidity keeps my nasal passages open. Some nights, the 60 degree (F) room temp gets pretty cool, but it definitely keeps me breathing.

Best wishes,

Den

SelfSeeker wrote:Do you think the Flonase you switched to is making it worse?

Hard to say really. The reason for the switch was because it was so bad, its gotten no better thats for sure.

SelfSeeker wrote: I noticed that you have the humidity set at 1. That is way to low, to keep the nose moist. Up the humidity and figure out how to control the rain out, either with a fleece cover or an Aussie hose.

Yeah I realized this early last week. A setting of 1 had been fine during the summer. I've seen slowly raising it the last week or so. Am at 3 now (forgot to update my profile) I was having rainout problems but I picked up a cheap hose cover last week which seems to have helped some. Will continue to increase until rain out happens

SelfSeeker wrote:What happened to make it worse?

I havn't been able to determine that. The only think I can think of is that the weather turned cold (with snow) here at about the same time I started having problems.

SelfSeeker wrote: Are you changing the disposable filters?
Are you watching the resuable filter every two weeks or more often if needed.

Yes.

Try putting the CPAP closer to the ground. The furher up the condensation has to travel may prevent it from getting all the way there. Or if you can, on top of the hose covers, try to keep the hose under the blankets as well. The body temperature under the covers creates a much warmer atmoshpere. It has helped me a lot.

Thanks,

Jim

Snoredog wrote:
I would suggest:

1. Use a saline only spray before bed

2. Try a home made simple rhino rinse

Thanks Snoredog, Whats the difference between these two steps?

jskinner wrote:

Snoredog wrote:
I would suggest:

1. Use a saline only spray before bed

2. Try a home made simple rhino rinse

Thanks Snoredog, Whats the difference between these two steps?

pretty much the exact same stuff except for the baking soda. The purpose of the pinch of baking soda in the homemade saline solution is it dissolves any dry mucosa in the nasal passages so it gets flushed out easier, you can tell with and without, with you will have this major runny nose as you are rinsing, you can make it without the baking soda but it works much better with.

I don't use the rhino rinse every night, only once a week or so, all the other nights I just give a spray of SimpleSaline (has no baking soda in it) in each nare before getting into bed, it just adds direct moisture. The long applicator gets the saline spray deep up in your nose.

I use my M series humidifier in OFF position, that thing delivers way too much moisture for me, I go through a half tank water per night, if I get any higher than 1 I get rainout.

Warmer moist air can make you feel congested, I actually like the incoming air a bit cooler, my room is cool at night down to 66F. I use the aussie heated hose to warm the air without adding any moisture. I only use the aussie heated hose during the winter months, when I first got it I hooked up a 1AMP x 12VDC power supply and it was too warm even in winter like now, I had to drop down to a 9VDC x 800milliamp power supply so it wasn't so warm, now it is on a timer and goes on/off automatically.

You only need to turn your humidifier up if you are drying out, if rainout appears it means you are getting too much moisture. Again the humidifier is not to warm the air, that is why so many of us use the aussie heated hose.

Do you get any bleeding in your nose or blood spots in the mucosa?

If so you might want to try a antihistamine like plain Claritin or generic Loratadine 10mg for about a week instead of the nasal steroidal spray. I used to use Flonase it didn't seem to help me at all.

Unlike Claritin-"D" version which has the decongestant, you can take loratadine every night if needed. I just use the Costco Kirkland brand called AllerClear, exact same stuff and you get like 90 tablets for $11 bucks. I stop taking it every couple weeks then only go back on it when my allergies get really bad with watery eyes or I'm sneezing all over the place.

I'm going for "Geek of the Month" award and just did a calculation to see how much moisture the humidifier actually adds to the air we breathe.

The amount of humidity added to CPAP by 400 ml of water (Remstar heated humidifer volume) over a 7-hour period of use is only about 4%. This added humidity just doesn't seem like very much to me so if someone's got a better handle on the calculation, please correct me. If my calculation is correct, It seems a good idea to run a room humidier in addition to running a heated humidifer, especially here in the arid Southwest.

Thanks,

--Andy

Calculation:

Assume: One uses an entire 400 ml reservoir over 7 hours sleep at an air flow rate of only 30 liters per minute.

Amount of water vapor produced by 400 ml water:

400 ml / 18 g/mol x 22.4 Liters gas/mol = 498 liters pure water vapor

Amount of air pumped by CPAP in 7 hrs:
7 hr x 60 min/hr x 30 liters = 12,600 liters

Increased humidity:
12,600 liters air / 498 liters water vapor = 3.9 %

Of course if you were running higher flow of 60 liters per minute, the added humidity would only be half the above percentage.