getting rid of leaks with a full face mask

im very new to this whole thing. i've been doing fairly well, accept with getting rid of mask leak. i've got a resmed airfit f10 and a respironics amara full face. i cant seem to fix the leaking on any of em. i do have a beard, i dont know if thats part of it or not. however i think i have a good seal when i go to bed, can't fell any leaks out of the sides, just from thee vent holes. where can i find the leak rates on these masks at? the leaks don't wake me, but i know its not optimal. here's last night graph, was my best night as far as ahi but i wonder how accurate it is with the leaks!

Why don't you try using a straight pressure 11 cm. setting and see what happens. You're not having any events for the machine to chase (except for a few stray Flow Limitations). You appear to be well treated at 11. Might help (alot) with your leaks.

Could also be your bed pillow is pushing your mask out of alignment and causing the leaks, too.


Den

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The intended intentional vent/leak rates are found in the mask paperwork that should have come with your mask or online with some searching but with your ResMed machine having that information isn't going to be of much help because your machine subtracts a generic vent rate (per your mask choice) before it ever reports the leak so the leak you are seeing is all excess leak but ResMed says they can compensate for leaks up to 24 L/min excess leak.

What concerns me more about your leak graph is that it never is down close to the 0.0 line so it's leaking quite a bit even when you are first turning the machine on.
I suspect that the facial hair has a lot to do with it though.

Are leaks waking you up often during the night?
Looks like for the report shown you spent 7% of the night with leaks above 24 L/min and even less time with it over 30 L/min and if I was sleeping well and feeling decent I don't know that I would be going to great lengths to fix that leak unless you are seeing much higher % of time in large leak or the leaks are waking you up often.
Looks like roughly 30 minutes of last night was in large leak territory and that time was sporadic in duration throughout the night.

Plus I still wonder why the baseline leak isn't at 0.0 because that's where it should be at least when starting out the night.
Have you confirmed that you have the correct mask chosen in the mask selection feature on your machine?
That mask choice affects that generic vent rate that gets subtracted so it can affect the baseline and if you have the wrong mask selected then your leak may not be quite as ugly as it first looks like.
I know that I used a full face mask but with a nasal pillow selected on my ResMed machine and my baseline leak looked sort of like yours and it wasn't leaking...it was because of wrong mask selection.

Pugsy wrote:The intended intentional vent/leak rates are found in the mask paperwork that should have come with your mask or online with some searching but with your ResMed machine having that information isn't going to be of much help because your machine subtracts a generic vent rate (per your mask choice) before it ever reports the leak so the leak you are seeing is all excess leak but ResMed says they can compensate for leaks up to 24 L/min excess leak.

What concerns me more about your leak graph is that it never is down close to the 0.0 line so it's leaking quite a bit even when you are first turning the machine on.
I suspect that the facial hair has a lot to do with it though.

Are leaks waking you up often during the night?
Looks like for the report shown you spent 7% of the night with leaks above 24 L/min and even less time with it over 30 L/min and if I was sleeping well and feeling decent I don't know that I would be going to great lengths to fix that leak unless you are seeing much higher % of time in large leak or the leaks are waking you up often.
Looks like roughly 30 minutes of last night was in large leak territory and that time was sporadic in duration throughout the night.

Plus I still wonder why the baseline leak isn't at 0.0 because that's where it should be at least when starting out the night.
Have you confirmed that you have the correct mask chosen in the mask selection feature on your machine?
That mask choice affects that generic vent rate that gets subtracted so it can affect the baseline and if you have the wrong mask selected then your leak may not be quite as ugly as it first looks like.
I know that I used a full face mask but with a nasal pillow selected on my ResMed machine and my baseline leak looked sort of like yours and it wasn't leaking...it was because of wrong mask selection.

i have full face mask selected within the mask settings on the airsense.
no they are not waking me up. and i feel pretty good, im only a month or so into it though. i just dont want to be leaving anything on the table!!


wulfman i will try that tonight. i'll post some charts of when it was set to 9.0cm, the leaks are still there. i just dont understand it. i cant feel any air leaking from the mask. i guess i could swap hoses maybe, i got a different one from my dads old machine he gave me while i was waiting on mine.

there's only a couple nights where my leak rate hit 0. and its in the middle of the night.

guess i could shave my beard.... don't really want to though, it gets cold 20' up in a treestand this time of yr. plus i work outside. im willing to try anything for my health though.

jt1 wrote:there's only a couple nights where my leak rate hit 0. and its in the middle of the night.

Bed pillow? Does your head sink into it? Does that push your mask out of alignment?

Beard? I know if I don't shave for a few days, my leaks can get to be a little U G L Y. First few nights aren't bad......beyond about 3 may show lots of leakage. I've grown beards quite a few times in my life, but not since starting this therapy. I can't imagine (or maybe I can) trying it with lots of facial hair. Some people can make it work, some can't.


Den

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Wulfman... wrote:

jt1 wrote:there's only a couple nights where my leak rate hit 0. and its in the middle of the night.

Bed pillow? Does your head sink into it? Does that push your mask out of alignment?

Beard? I know if I don't shave for a few days, my leaks can get to be a little U G L Y. First few nights aren't bad......beyond about 3 may show lots of leakage. I've grown beards quite a few times in my life, but not since starting this therapy. I can't imagine (or maybe I can) trying it with lots of facial hair. Some people can make it work, some can't.


Den

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the last two nights i've been using a thick and hard memory foam. no change

jt1 wrote:guess i could shave my beard.... don't really want to though, it gets cold 20' up in a treestand this time of yr. plus i work outside. im willing to try anything for my health though.

Long hunting seasons where you live?

But, I understand the working outside thing.


Den

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When I had my full face mask experiment and used the nasal pillow selection I had an elevated baseline like yours and that mask was also a the Amara View. I initially thought that the baseline being off was a reflection of the incorrect mask selection but maybe I need to check it out with the correct mask choice because maybe it is just the way the ResMed machines is going to report this particular mask which would mean that the baseline is off a bit and that would mean the large leaks flagged aren't maybe quite as high as they might seem.

If I have time later I will try to put some time in using the Amara View at the correct full face setting to see if it alters the baseline any.
It's very possible that perhaps you aren't really going as far into large leak territory as it appears.
Either way...I wouldn't worry about such a short period of time as long as I was sleeping good and feeling decent because going to extreme measures of some sort correcting that leak might make it a situation where the cure is worse than the disease.
Would hurt nothing to try a fixed pressure though to see if that helps or not.

I will let you know about the new mask experiment with correct setting as soon as I get around to doing it.
I purposely left the mask selection on nasal pillows when I did the Amara View experiment because I really thought I would end up changing the mask in the middle of the night but to my surprise I didn't.

Wulfman... wrote:

jt1 wrote:guess i could shave my beard.... don't really want to though, it gets cold 20' up in a treestand this time of yr. plus i work outside. im willing to try anything for my health though.

Long hunting seasons where you live?

But, I understand the working outside thing.


Den

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our bow season in missouri starts 9/15 and runs through 1/15 with the exception of the 2 week rifle opener during the rut!! and im out every weekend till january 15th! i got 4 kids to feed, lol!

Pugsy wrote:When I had my full face mask experiment and used the nasal pillow selection I had an elevated baseline like yours and that mask was also a the Amara View. I initially thought that the baseline being off was a reflection of the incorrect mask selection but maybe I need to check it out with the correct mask choice because maybe it is just the way the ResMed machines is going to report this particular mask which would mean that the baseline is off a bit and that would mean the large leaks flagged aren't maybe quite as high as they might seem.

If I have time later I will try to put some time in using the Amara View at the correct full face setting to see if it alters the baseline any.
It's very possible that perhaps you aren't really going as far into large leak territory as it appears.
Either way...I wouldn't worry about such a short period of time as long as I was sleeping good and feeling decent because going to extreme measures of some sort correcting that leak might make it a situation where the cure is worse than the disease.
Would hurt nothing to try a fixed pressure though to see if that helps or not.

I will let you know about the new mask experiment with correct setting as soon as I get around to doing it.
I purposely left the mask selection on nasal pillows when I did the Amara View experiment because I really thought I would end up changing the mask in the middle of the night but to my surprise I didn't.

sounds great pugsy!! yeah im just confused cause i cant hear or feel the leaks. thanks again!!

jt1 wrote:im very new to this whole thing. i've been doing fairly well, accept with getting rid of mask leak. i've got a resmed airfit f10 and a respironics amara full face. i cant seem to fix the leaking on any of em. i do have a beard, i dont know if thats part of it or not. however i think i have a good seal when i go to bed, can't fell any leaks out of the sides, just from thee vent holes. where can i find the leak rates on these masks at? the leaks don't wake me, but i know its not optimal. here's last night graph, was my best night as far as ahi but i wonder how accurate it is with the leaks!

beards cause FFm to leak more, and movement will break the seal around your nose and cheeks, and cause big, abrupt leaks, as happened around 3:05..

Den almost always suggests straight pressure, and while that does work best for some people, bear in mind that he's not holdin with no technology from this century... you do have an abrupt leak increase at 3:05ish, but it's a lot of work to tie that to a pressure increase 20 minutes earlier.

search for info here (or on the net) about "mask liners", they won't eliminate leaks, but for many people, they'll tame 'em.

Karen from Padacheek.com is a forum member, and really nice lady, and is almost always happy to talk to people about whether one of her products could help you. she's more interested in helping you sleep than making a buck, and I respect that greatly.

jt1 wrote:i'll post some charts of when it was set to 9.0cm, the leaks are still there. i just dont understand it. i cant feel any air leaking from the mask. .

it's *impossible* for a mask to seal against a beard. it's so diffuse than you can't feel it, but it's going to leak.

the leaks don't have to be zero, just under control for the machine to be able to work as designed. 24lpm is the recommended line for resmed machines.

palerider wrote:

jt1 wrote:im very new to this whole thing. i've been doing fairly well, accept with getting rid of mask leak. i've got a resmed airfit f10 and a respironics amara full face. i cant seem to fix the leaking on any of em. i do have a beard, i dont know if thats part of it or not. however i think i have a good seal when i go to bed, can't fell any leaks out of the sides, just from thee vent holes. where can i find the leak rates on these masks at? the leaks don't wake me, but i know its not optimal. here's last night graph, was my best night as far as ahi but i wonder how accurate it is with the leaks!

beards cause FFm to leak more, and movement will break the seal around your nose and cheeks, and cause big, abrupt leaks, as happened around 3:05..

Den almost always suggests straight pressure, and while that does work best for some people, bear in mind that he's not holdin with no technology from this century... you do have an abrupt leak increase at 3:05ish, but it's a lot of work to tie that to a pressure increase 20 minutes earlier.

search for info here (or on the net) about "mask liners", they won't eliminate leaks, but for many people, they'll tame 'em.

Karen from Padacheek.com is a forum member, and really nice lady, and is almost always happy to talk to people about whether one of her products could help you. she's more interested in helping you sleep than making a buck, and I respect that greatly.

The "technology" I use is from this century........ ~2005 or later........
And, sometimes the K.I.S.S. method works best.
But, it helps to identify "WHICH PEOPLE" each method works for.
If a range of pressures (some of the technology from this century) works.......then why not just leave it "WIDE open"?
Answer: Not everyone has the same breathing characteristics when they sleep.


Den

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