Women: Please help me design a female-oriented PAP-Cap

[SleepGuy]

Please explain the cap-stain case-hair problem?

Bret, it's satin... a type of material that's slippery... supposed to keep your hair from messing up when you lay down on it.

It's shiny, slippery... either ask your wife, or ask somebody at a fabric store.

Ok, thanks. We tried satin and it's quite slippery and it's not cotton....but it is a stiff material.

Would women really want a satin cap like this? It's actually going to be more hot than the cotton (I think).

It might be worth experimenting with it--

[SleepGuy]

I have been interested in the papcap for some time, but have not bought one because I know it wouldn't work with my long thick hair. The main thing that got me interested in them were some photos that carbonman posted. Without those, I would never have given it another look.

With the current design, the only thing I could do with my hair is have it come out the bottom at the back. I absolutely CANNOT STAND to have my hair touching me when I sleep. Before CPAP therapy, I would always stretch my hair out above me over the top of the pillow so that it couldn't touch my face or neck and was out of the way. Now what I do is pull all of my hair out of the top of the headgear and then I can get it to go above me.

I thought about buying a papcap and trying to modify it by cutting a hole at the crown so I could thread my hair as a ponytail through the hole, but because the papcap is so expensive, and there aren't really any good pictures of it where I can see if there is a reasonable chance this could work, I was afraid to try this experiment. I sort of felt like if I were going to pay that much for headgear it ought to either come already prepared to let my hair escape out the top, or it at least ought to be obvious how it could be easily modified without ruining it. Neither is true.

Ideally you would have a large gap to let the hair out of the top easily and then some sort of closures to corral the hair into a smaller gap and return the integrity of the cap.

As for color, I don't care. I certainly wouldn't pay any more money for a fancy fabric for the looks, though comfort would be high on the list, even if it's ugly.


The hair net? Gag. That looks positively uncomfortable. I'm curious, what purpose do you think that hair net would serve? It's not like I'm going to be serving food.

I'm afaid I can't answer your other questions because I've never even seen a papcap up close, much less tried one on.

Good luck. I hope you come up with something, but it sounds like maybe the requirements for women vary more than you can accommodate in a single design.

What about a long slit cut into the top--like a big button hole? It could be shaped like a T, with the base of the T at the bottom...does that make sense? It would make a little flap for hair for women who wanted it and would have little effect for people who did not want to use it....

Bret

[DreamStalker]

Not a female here but ideas could be gender neutral. Here is what I have been doing. Been meaning to get picture(s) up and explain.

I have lost a good bit of weight this year. Unfortunately the weight loss has initiated mouth leaks that I did not used to have before. In the past, I found that chinstraps would hold my lower jaw in place but that air would still leak out between my lips (lip flutter). I noticed that if I put my hand over my lips while using the chinstrap, I could prevent the lip flutters.

So I used a micro-fleece headband to cover my mouth and then put Bret's PapCap to hold my jaw in place and the headband in place over my lips. The headband has just enough elasticity to conform to the shape of my mouth without placing too much isolated or differential pressure in some spots and leaving free gaps for air leaks and it is very soft and comfortable. Plus you can actually part your lips a bit and breath through it if necessary ... the purpose of the band is just to hold your lips snug tight while in a relaxed sleep state and thereby preventing the lip flutters. The whole setup also prevents the “blowfish” syndrome too. This setup has been working quite well for me for over a couple of months now.

The headband brand name is “Polartec” and as I recall I got mine at Sports Authority for about $15. I'm sure other sources and brands are available.











Please excuse my half-wit assistant's weird-shaped head ... comes with the job I guess.

Bret -

Have you looked into baseball caps without the bill. If you could find polyester mesh crowns with adjustable snap size fittings and add the velcro or other fastening material for the chinstrap. Then maybe you could offer several options like anit-lip flutter attachment or FF mask attachments, etc.

UPDATE EDIT**
Revised old broken photobucket image links ... also, for initial version, I first use a fleece headband then later revised/replaced with ACE bandage as it was much lighter and cooler on the face. However, I still find it much better to train your tongue to stick to roof of mouth and avoid all the added chinstrap and mouth band but it does take time to train ... so this may still help in the mean time.

[SleepGuy]

DreamStalker, this is brilliant....thanks for sharing and Happy New Year!

SnoreDog would be proud!

[DreamStalker]

DreamStalker, this is brilliant....thanks for sharing and Happy New Year!

SnoreDog would be proud!

I have worn a beard for the past 30 years and the thought of shaving just so I can tape or glue my lips together ... just had to come up with something different.

May you and everyone else have a grand and healthy new year too.

[DreamOn]

GREAT idea, DreamStalker!!! And seeing the photos really helps! I'm going to try something similar tonight. I'm getting to look like a freak at bedtime!

Would women really want a satin cap like this? It's actually going to be more hot than the cotton (I think).

I wouldn't want a satin cap myself. Too slippery, probably wouldn't wash as well, and seems like it would be hotter. It is a bummer how my hair looks in the morning (flat!), but I figure that's just one of the sacrifices I have to make for good sleep.

~ DreamOn

[Cobalt Panther]

The snap seems like a good idea

Bret,
I must have missed the snap reference. Where is the snap going to be placed? If they are located in a place where there is pressure (laying on them), they are not going to be comfortable for very long. Then again, you might get used to it. Depends on where it will be placed. Can't wait for pictures.
Cobalt Panther

[Kiralynx]

Not a female here but ideas could be gender neutral. Here is what I have been doing. Been meaning to get picture(s) up and explain.

Dreamstalker, that's a great rig. And I'd die of heat prostration in it. Glad it works for you!

[DreamStalker]

Not a female here but ideas could be gender neutral. Here is what I have been doing. Been meaning to get picture(s) up and explain.

Dreamstalker, that's a great rig. And I'd die of heat prostration in it. Glad it works for you!

Yep ... I guess we are all different. I thought it might be too warm also, but the headband material is very breathable. I also take 750 mg of SloNiacin right before bed which likely gives me hot flashes while asleep (at least it does while awake) but I have not had any issues so far. I suppose any "soft flexible" material would work ... I just happened to use what I had on hand.

[gasp]

Please explain the cap-stain case-hair problem?

Bret, it's satin... a type of material that's slippery... supposed to keep your hair from messing up when you lay down on it.

It's shiny, slippery... either ask your wife, or ask somebody at a fabric store.

Ok, thanks. We tried satin and it's quite slippery and it's not cotton....but it is a stiff material.

Would women really want a satin cap like this? It's actually going to be more hot than the cotton (I think).

It might be worth experimenting with it--

The satin being hot is an excellent point and with long hair, there's enough inherent heat, plus the mask is hot so trying to sleep cooler is always a goal.

[SleepGuy]

Several on this thread have commented about the chinstrap fabric being too hard and scratchy and leaving a strap / red mark on the chin.

I think I have a good solution and would like people to try it out:

viewtopic/t48148/Chinstrap-Trial-for-PAPCap-Users.html