Latest dilemma: Same model of APAP but much more noisier

[Justin_Case]

Well, my latest dilemma is a big problem.

Several weeks ago, I replaced my Respironics Auto (NOT M) w/CFLEX with another same model machine, but newer (refurbished) one because the other one got quite a bit noisier. My DME swapped it with a new refurbished model which is a bit, only slight quieter.

I hid the machine partly under my bed and I wear earplugs. In doing so, I am now bothered by the noise of the machine as it is travelling through the tubing and into the mask. If it is not my own breathing, it's the airflow within the mask that is loud. This was not an issue with the previous APAP until it went "bad".

I have two masks, the Mirage Activa and FlexiFit HC405. The Flexifit has always been a lot quieter than my Mirage so I use it more. However, in wearing this mask the noise is substantially amplified and I can't fall asleep or fall back to sleep. Ther Mirage has anasty air flow where you can really feel it on your arm and this also gets worse if I am sleeping on my side where my mask is touch the pillow a bit. The noise level does increase to an untolerable level with the Mirage too.

Up to now, my DME has allowed me to rent my machine and apply the rental to the machine I will buy. I am so freaken worried now because once I buy the machine, the DME will not be able to sell it as new and Respironics won't replace or fix it under warranty when there is nothing technically wrong with the machine.

Wearing earplugs on helps prevent the noise of the machine but magnifies it inside the mask and hose. Again, this was not an issue before.

However, given the fact I have been going through a rough time with my bug time increase of OA in the early morning hours, there may be something else at play here. And for those who are aware of my previous posts, this other doc (who is replacing my GP while out of town) says I need to be referred to a neurologist (which is what I have been saying to my GP all along but hasn't listened to me).


Any helpful advice?

[Wulfman]

Up to now, my DME has allowed me to rent my machine and apply the rental to the machine I will buy. I am so freaken worried now because once I buy the machine, the DME will not be able to sell it as new and Respironics won't replace or fix it under warranty when there is nothing technically wrong with the machine.

A noisy machine is something you should NOT have to tolerate. Don't worry about whether the DME can sell it as "new". I'm sure they're still under warranty (which, if you're renting, is the DME's problem), so make them give you one that you can sleep with. That's why they charge mega-bucks.

Best wishes,

Den

[Snoredog]

I believe you when you say it is noisy, but you should know that characteristic is NOT inherent in that machine.

So if you got a REFURBISHED auto you cannot really relate that noise level of that machine to one you would purchase brand new. I have read of noisy refurbished units before, think SWS mentioned he had one but I have also read where they were quieter when they got them back.

(goes back to my meter test, only true way to find out if there is a difference). Maybe you should go down to RadioShack and get a meter then you can compare the machines your DME has right on the counter, then you can leave with the quietest one. I don't really care if there is a difference but you would.

I have purchased 3 different Remstar Autos in the Classic model like what you are now using in addition to the M series unit over the years, maybe I just got lucky 3 times in a row or either that I need a hearing aid, because none of them have been noisy to date. One leaks like a sieve but it is not noisy. NONE.

I can see if you have never used a machine before, that any kind of noise at all can seem noisy. Use a quiet mask and you will hear more of the machine, that is a fact. Use a noisy mask and the machine may seem the quietest you have ever used, because you can't hear it.

I have never used a refurbished or used machine, so I can't tell you how those would compare to factor fresh units. All of the Remstar Auto's I purchased came brand new from cpap.com, fresh in the original box.

I purchase from them because I know they flip their inventory often, that means I'll get the latest and greatest machine/firmware from the factory when I order. I don't have to worry that the machine I'm buying has been sitting on the shelf for 6 months or more. The 2yr warranty from Respironics starts when the machine has been shipped to the distributor/dealer. If that machine sat on the shelf for 6 months, you only have 18 months of warranty left. However, I have no doubts that cpap.com would honor the warranty should a machine have a problem in the 19th month, but I can't speak for them.

All of these autopaps I purchased and claim to have been quiet have been sold to members here of this forum, I can name them if you want, but if a machine I sold them was found noisy they haven't complained to me about it and they are certainly welcome to do so if they wish.

I know masks can be noisy, and yes the Activa is more noisy than some of the other nasal masks, by comparison the UltraMirage Full face is near silent compared to the Activa. The MirageII is quieter than the Activa. The Activa has an exhaust port exactly like that of the Vista which is also noisy, it is in the exhaust port design.

Next if you compare the Resmed masks to Respironics masks such as the ComfortGel, the Comfort2 Full face, the Resmed masks are way quieter. Some may whistle at times but overall they are still quiet. When you say the Mirage mask is noisy, people here can either agree or disagree with you, because they may also own that mask. After a while you come to the conclusion this guy thinks everything is noisy.

I suggested this before, you should try the S8 machine, you may get lucky and find it to be a much more quiet machine. But what are you going to do if it is also found too noisy? I don't want to get into any conspiracy theories but what if that rental machine was noisy on purpose? If I gave you a quieter machine after that one you are going to say "that one is much quieter" and be a happy camper from then on.

But if you try every machine and they are all noisy, about the only thing you can do is put the thing in a box of some sort or get a longer hose and move it farther away. I have never heard noise radiate up through the hose but I'm sure it could happen. If you are using a Remstar integrated humidifier I don't see how that can happen, but I can always be wrong.

[dsm]

JustinCase

If this is the std Remstar Auto w cflex) and it is refurbished. My 1st question would be these models are only 18 months old ? - why would one that young need refurbishing

so I would suspect water or water vapor ingestion that may have reached the bearings of the fan motor.

The Remstar Auto w cflex is very well sound proofed inside (compared say to a Bipap model (other than the Bipap Auto)) so if you say the noise is travelling down the airhose, it suggests to me it *is* coming from the blower unit & depending on the nature of the noise, could be bearings or I guess it is not impossible for some other material to have accidentally been ingested (e.g. tissue from someone cleaning around the air intake with the filter removed) and to be causing noise in the impeller part of the blower.

Would like to get my hands on it to investigate but that isn't an option

Good luck

DSM

[Snoredog]

[quote="dsm"]JustinCase

If this is the std Remstar Auto w cflex) and it is refurbished. My 1st question would be these models are only 18 months old ? - why would one that young need refurbishing

so I would suspect water or water vapor ingestion that may have reached the bearings of the fan motor.

The Remstar Auto w cflex is very well sound proofed inside (compared say to a Bipap model (other than the Bipap Auto)) so if you say the noise is travelling down the airhose, it suggests to me it *is* coming from the blower unit & depending on the nature of the noise, could be bearings or I guess it is not impossible for some other material to have accidentally been ingested (e.g. tissue from someone cleaning around the air intake with the filter removed) and to be causing noise in the impeller part of the blower.

Would like to get my hands on it to investigate but that isn't an option

Good luck

DSM

[Justin_Case]

Thanks, just to clarify on the noise.

Yes, both the machines I have been using since April and the refurbished one are noisy when listening to it. The older one was not like this before, but it was a tad bit noisier than the one I used a few weeks prior to April before returning it. However, the noise it self on that one was tolerable until about a few weeks ago when I returned it. In taking the machine apart, I knew the micro filter was dirty, so perhaps that may have contributed to the noise. But, it wasnt that dirty.

Basically, there are two different noises:

1. machine noise (which I can deal with by gettting a longer hose and having it under my bed IF I can wear ear plugs)

2. Mask/hose noise. Most of the noise is actually within the mask and the F&P mask which was continuously quiter than the Mirage has now become the noisiest. It's hard for me to describe, but it is the blowing noise transferring to the mask which is keeping me up. In fact, ear plugs are hell. I am trying to fall asleep without earplugs where I somehow dont seem to "hear" the noise within the mask as much, but the blowers motor is keeping me up. Again, this is new.

Perhaps...just maybe, I have somehow become even more suspectable to the mask noise?

I asked my DME about trying the other machines, say S8 and he said it is way louder than these ones....I am really confused here. My DME has been fantastic and quite patient. And even though CPAP is not keeping my AHI below 6, without it will be worse. Argh!!

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, hose, CPAP, DME, AHI

[Snoredog]

Thanks, just to clarify on the noise.

Yes, both the machines I have been using since April and the refurbished one are noisy when listening to it. The older one was not like this before, but it was a tad bit noisier than the one I used a few weeks prior to April before returning it. However, the noise it self on that one was tolerable until about a few weeks ago when I returned it. In taking the machine apart, I knew the micro filter was dirty, so perhaps that may have contributed to the noise. But, it wasnt that dirty.

Basically, there are two different noises:

1. machine noise (which I can deal with by gettting a longer hose and having it under my bed)

2. Mask/hose noise. Most of the noise is actually within the mask and the F&P mask which was continuously quiter than the Mirage has now become the noisiest. It's hard for me to describe, but it is the blowing noise transferring to the mask which is keeping me up. In fact, ear plugs are hell. I am trying to fall asleep without earplugs where I somehow dont seem to "hear" the noise within the mask as much, but the blowers motor is keeping me up. Again, this is new.

Perhaps...just maybe, I have somehow become even more suspectable to the mask noise?

I asked my DME about trying the other machines, say S8 and he said it is way louder than these ones....I am really confused here. My DME has been fantastic and quite patient. And even though CPAP is not keeping my AHI below 6, without it will be worse. Argh!!

Noise is just one of the cpap qwerks you have to work through. Moving the machine farther away is one way and already mentioned. Using a white noise maker is another but that can also bother your spouse and disturb them.

My experience with mask noise: I tell the newbies that come here that report they cannot sleep with the mask when you ask you find they are using a Swift which is probably the most noisy mask I have ever used. I'm used to the noises and I cannot use that interface.

When you are new at this therapy you need everything going in the right direction, that includes eliminating the noise if that keeps you awake. Next comes comfort, the interface has to be comfortable enough so that doesn't contribute to it.

types of noise: some masks can make noise when you inhale or exhale, some make a constant hissing sound from the exhaust port and that noise is annoying and constant.

We can only tell you which mask is the quietest and most comfortable. Right now the SomnoTech Soyala appears to be winning the noise battle, but I haven't tried it myself. If you google search on this mask you will find one site that has a mask noise comparison graph with this mask, it is much quieter than even the UltraMirage FF that I consider to be near silent. When I say silent it should not "hiss" with cpap air nor should it increase as you exhale. My pressure is usually below 10cm, if your pressure is 18cm, then even this mask could appear to be noisy.

This is the one claiming to be the quietest mask on the market:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/Soyala ... dgear.html

I haven't tried it yet but I hope to soon.

[Justin_Case]

I just got the darn F&P mask not long ago....I think my DME will charge me a couple hundred for it. THe problems i had with it was condensation inside the MASK and I was always hot and sweaty underneath. My pressure has been climbing cuz I am not being too responsive to the pressure, which makes me think I have complex or central apneas.

May have to try to sleep with the white noise from the air purifier tonight, but still it doesnt address the issue of increased noise (mostly airflow noise from within the mask) and occasional breathing noise too.

[ozij]

<snip> My pressure has been climbing cuz I am not being too responsive to the pressure, which makes me think I have complex or central apneas.

May have to try to sleep with the white noise from the air purifier tonight, but still it doesnt address the issue of increased noise (mostly airflow noise from within the mask) and occasional breathing noise too.

Increased noise will always come with increased pressure. And from the noise you're describing -airflow noise from within the mask - that might be what you're suffering from.

Wait till you're properly diagnosed before you buy a machine - maybe an auto isn't even what you need. Are you sure that higher pressuer is indicated?

Have you tried using the machine at a constant pressure - one that you can fall asleep with?

O.

[Justin_Case]

<snip> My pressure has been climbing cuz I am not being too responsive to the pressure, which makes me think I have complex or central apneas.

May have to try to sleep with the white noise from the air purifier tonight, but still it doesnt address the issue of increased noise (mostly airflow noise from within the mask) and occasional breathing noise too.

Increased noise will always come with increased pressure. And from the noise you're describing -airflow noise from within the mask - that might be what you're suffering from.

Wait till you're properly diagnosed before you buy a machine - maybe an auto isn't even what you need. Are you sure that higher pressuer is indicated?

Have you tried using the machine at a constant pressure - one that you can fall asleep with?

That was my first step in troubleshooting this issue. Even at a constant pressure CPAP mode or a lower APAP mode pressure, the "increased" noise level is present compared to the same models/same pressure that I have had that I did not have a noise issue with it, until recently.

In falling asleep, I have to use the "noisier mask"- Mirage Activa. The previously quieter mask is now too loud and both have become louder than previously which corresponds to the machine being louder too.

[Justin_Case]

A noisy machine is something you should NOT have to tolerate. Don't worry about whether the DME can sell it as "new". I'm sure they're still under warranty (which, if you're renting, is the DME's problem), so make them give you one that you can sleep with. That's why they charge mega-bucks.

the problem is that the DME will send it back to Respironics without hesitation on my behalf but if it's still noisy when it returns (or if they come back and say NFF (no fault found) then I am screwed.

i also get the impression that the production of the Respironics Auto w/CFLEX is less now that the M series is out.

[oldgearhead]

Okay, I'm setting here looking at a RemStar Auto (not "M") blower/motor assembly, and I see where they have balanced the assembly by removing a bit of brass from the flywheel. The bearings appear to be contained entirely inside the motor, the assembly uses a thru shaft with the impeller on one end and the flywheel on the other. They must have a very small balancing stand, because the flywheel is only 1" in diameter.

I have heard of the units being set-up without a filter. Your unit does have filter, right? I know it's loud without a nice clean one (or two if you use the pollen filter).

[oldgearhead]

setting

That should have been "sitting", right?

[Wulfman]

A noisy machine is something you should NOT have to tolerate. Don't worry about whether the DME can sell it as "new". I'm sure they're still under warranty (which, if you're renting, is the DME's problem), so make them give you one that you can sleep with. That's why they charge mega-bucks.

the problem is that the DME will send it back to Respironics without hesitation on my behalf but if it's still noisy when it returns (or if they come back and say NFF (no fault found) then I am screwed.

i also get the impression that the production of the Respironics Auto w/CFLEX is less now that the M series is out.

Well, you've got a 50/50 chance that they'll get it fixed. Does the DME have another loaner for you till your other one gets back? Maybe it'll be quieter.

I sent my Pro 2 in a couple of months ago and one of the "issues" was that it had developed a little "wheeze"/squeak in the fan when the C-Flex was changing speeds from exhale to inhale......and they fixed that. Nice and quiet again.

Best wishes,

Den

[Wulfman]

setting

That should have been "sitting", right?

Well.....normally, "yes"......but it was YOUR story, so you can tell it/spell it however you want to.

Have a good one.

Den