Obamacare: Cutting Liberals' Hours

[insylem]

Republican candidates were warning that this would happen...It's starting early, but you will see a lot more of this.

If the republican canidates wouldn't say a bunch of stupid stuff like what Ann Culter says
and crap about some of the otherdumb stuff people would take them more seriously

[49er]

So you are OK with millions of workers across the country having their work hours cut due to Obamacare as long as there is a mix of liberals/conservatives/Republicans/Democrats affected?

Come on Choker, a high class person like yourself who has perfect writing and grammar skills knows darn right well I didn't say that in my post.

That is some liberal logic! Redistribute the poverty! You are illustrations of the classic liberals who have an overriding goal of equality of outcome and are happily willing to accept the end of prosperity, the end of high levels of achievement and the end of personal freedom in pursuit of your goal.

You are too funny choker the way you deliberately misinterpret what people say to add your own right wing interpretation.

49er

[The Choker]

If the republican canidates wouldn't say a bunch of stupid stuff like what Ann Culter says
and crap about some of the otherdumb stuff people would take them more seriously

Good comment! We all need to pursue the truth and not get caught up in personalities. It is trite but true that Republican and Democrat are two wings of the same party with identical goals - to be career politicians and muster as much power as possible.

[The Choker]

You are too funny choker the way you deliberately misinterpret what people say to add your own right wing interpretation.

49er

Why don't you say what you mean instead on dancing on the fringe of the issues?

[49er]

You are too funny choker the way you deliberately misinterpret what people say to add your own right wing interpretation.

49er

Why don't you say what you mean instead on dancing on the fringe of the issues?

I did as I pointed out the fallacy of stereotyping college professors as liberals. That is all I said. You chose to filter what I said through your own biases.

49er

[The Choker]

You choose to swat at the gnat and would like to avoid the important point: People are being hurt badly by Obamacare; 400 and their families at Community College Of Allegheny County alone; it will only get worse.

[newhosehead]

The Choker
You are illustrations of the classic liberals who have an overriding goal of equality of outcome and are happily willing to accept the end of prosperity, the end of high levels of achievement and the end of personal freedom in pursuit of your goal.

Sad.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe this? Do you seriously believe that "classic" liberals want the end of prosperity, achievement and an end to personal freedom? Seriously? I know I keep putting question marks in here but I am having a really hard time with this.
FWIW, which likely amounts to zero on this forum, I have voted for candidates from both parties in my lifetime. I know, waste of my time to say that.
Just curious, what is your definition of a "classic" conservative???

[Issac]

No one really understood the effect Obama-care would have on this country, not even Nancy Pelosi. I think we would have all been better if if thy just passed a pre existing condition clause and some kind of affordable medicaid for the unemployed. The rest of it will cause nothing but distress and does nothing for undocumented workers or non tax paying families off the grid. The doctors are despairingly mad over this and I don't want an angry doctor (probably paid $600.00 instead of $6000.00 for my operation) working over me if it's life or death. I don't think anyone foresaw companies cutting all their full time employees to keep costs inline and within the law. I think it effects any company with 50 employees. The bright side is that there will be a lot of part time work available.

[guest (49er)]

You choose to swat at the gnat and would like to avoid the important point: People are being hurt badly by Obamacare; 400 and their families at Community College Of Allegheny County alone; it will only get worse.

Hmm, somehow I get the feeling that if Obamacare wasn't an issue, you would be applauding these cuts. Also, you haven't posted anything on cpaptalk about all the community colleges enduring budget cuts which was happening long before the election.

Anyway, Choker, time to get on the bandwagon for Single Payer if you're so concerned about people being hurt by Obama Care. Are you in?

49er

[The Choker]

Do you honestly believe this? Do you seriously believe that "classic" liberals want the end of prosperity, achievement and an end to personal freedom? Seriously? I know I keep putting question marks in here but I am having a really hard time with this.
FWIW, which likely amounts to zero on this forum, I have voted for candidates from both parties in my lifetime. I know, waste of my time to say that.

Good point. You are right - I don't really think that liberals want all that to end. However, they are only concerned with good intentions and do not see the unintended consequences of many of the positions they take. They see the "seen" but do not see the "unseen". They believe they can regulate prosperity and equal outcome into existence, which I am sure you understand is purely good intentions with bad results.

Just curious, what is your definition of a "classic" conservative???

I have no definition for that and will leave it to you. I don't consider myself a conservative and neither do any of my conservative friends. My beliefs are more toward classical liberalism (John Locke style) and I used to be (finally just had to get over it) infuriated that people who today call themselves liberal stole the term and now abuse it.

[PST]

What about those of us who have great insurance, but will either lose it or get it greatly reduced, while our cost for it goes up? I have what is considered a caddilac plan. If it stays the way it is, it will be taxed at 40%. So, it will have to be cut or dropped, which means that I will have to go the exchanges and pay for insurance that currently costs me pretty much nothing. My HRA account gets more than I pay in premiums. I will not be getting a pay increase to make up for it. The only way for my employer to avoid this penalty is to drop everybody to less than 30 hours.

I realize I am repeating myself here, but I still believe that zoocrewphoto's fears are unfounded. The excise tax on "Cadillac plans" won't kick in until 2018, so no employer should be using it as an excuse to reduce benefits in 2013. The tax is payable by insurers, not employers (unless they self-insure) or employees. It is assessed only on the excess over $10,200 for individual coverage or $27,500 for family coverage. For example, the annual tax on an $11,000 individual policy would be $320 (40% of $800), not $4,400 (40% of $11,000). These thresholds are much higher than average premiums, they will be indexed for inflation, and there is an exception for certain dangerous jobs in which health insurance is unusually expensive. I don't actually think our present system of employer-sponsored health insurance is very efficient, and there would be advantages to a system in which people chose their own coverage instead of being limited, as a practical matter, to what their employers offer. Nevertheless, the PPACA had to accommodate existing interests, and so it was clearly designed to minimize the effect on people who currently have adequate insurance coverage through their employers. I have such coverage, and I do not expect the advent of the exchanges in 2014 to change things much for our company.

[tmiker]

I don't believe it is indexed for inflation...are you sure?

[tmiker]

American business must be really incompetent since the rest of the world manages this and makes a profit.

Not sure who is making a profit...the rest of the world is in debt also.

[BlackSpinner]

Instead of pointing out what you consider to be the negatives, how about getting on board and attempting to be positive! After all, the thousands of people who voted for Obama (and he did win, by the way) surely must be seeing something that you refuse to even consider.

What about those of us who have great insurance, but will either lose it or get it greatly reduced, while our cost for it goes up? I have what is considered a caddilac plan. If it stays the way it is, it will be taxed at 40%. So, it will have to be cut or dropped, which means that I will have to go the exchanges and pay for insurance that currently costs me pretty much nothing. My HRA account gets more than I pay in premiums. I will not be getting a pay increase to make up for it. The only way for my employer to avoid this penalty is to drop everybody to less than 30 hours.

Why was it so hard for people to consider a way to help those who needed insurance without harming those who already had something they liked? My contract expires in May, so who knows what changes will be in store for me. I'm not looking forward to it.

Don't expect me to jump up and cheer when I know this is going to cost me financially, and I am not doing well in this economy anyway. I hope you are correct - that everything will work out great. But I'm not going to count on it. There's a reason I am getting my wisdom teeth out this week.

Universal health care. The rest of the world manages to do it. It is called not being greedy and having compassion.

[jtmarten]

What I would really love to see are the special Congressional programs for retirement and healthcare go away. Let those jackwads participate in the programs THEY put in place for US.