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mrnetwurm wrote:Ugh, well, so much for the good news I was reporting. I have been running my sound activated recorder for days now and had many nights with absolutely no snoring or sore throats in the morning. This morning, I woke up and found lots of data on the recorder. Yep, I was snoring like crazy last night and have an awful sore throat today. So, maybe a new lower number for CPAP setting, but its pretty clear the machine is still needed.

Not the result I was hoping for.

jerry

I second Julie's concerns about mouthbreathing.

had many nights with absolutely no snoring or sore throats in the morning. This morning, I woke up and found lots of data on the recorder.

What was different about last night? Did you have some nasal congestion? Did you eat a big, spicy meal late in the evening? Did you sleep in a different position? Did you not practice good sleep hygiene measures yesterday?

Since there could be a variety of reasons, taking turns on you, the smart money says keep using the machine.

Are you running reports like Sleepyhead to see exactly what's going on?>

I don't know what was different about the night that the snoring returned. I have sleepyhead software, but of course, that only tells me whats happening when I use the machine, not when I don't use the machine, which was the point of my experiment.

I haven't downloaded my chip to analyze, but I do have one piece of data I can share. My machine reports AHI. It used to report very consistantly at about 1.1 AHI, now, after the weight loss, it shows .4 average.

Now, that doesnt mean I can dump the machine, but it does mean I am having fewer episodes.

mrnetwurm wrote: It used to report very consistantly at about 1.1 AHI, now, after the weight loss, it shows .4 average.

Now, that doesnt mean I can dump the machine, but it does mean I am having fewer episodes.

Disagree. The difference is insignificant.

Another idea, which will take longer is to use the features in my ""PR System One REMstar Pro CPAP Machine with AutoIQ."" The machine can detect my pressure requirements and adjust as needed. I have to sleep with it for 3 days in the 'auto-trial' phase to let it detect and select a setting. I'm not sure if it will tell me if I need 'zero' pressure, but it may tell me that I need something much lower than my initial setting of 11.

What are you waiting for? Just do it.

mrnetwurm wrote:I don't know what was different about the night that the snoring returned. I have sleepyhead software, but of course, that only tells me whats happening when I use the machine, not when I don't use the machine, which was the point of my experiment.

I haven't downloaded my chip to analyze, but I do have one piece of data I can share. My machine reports AHI. It used to report very consistantly at about 1.1 AHI, now, after the weight loss, it shows .4 average.

Now, that doesnt mean I can dump the machine, but it does mean I am having fewer episodes.

It means that the machine is better able to prevent events. It does not necessarily mean that you would have fewer events without using the machine. It may just mean that the pressure needs are lower. How many events you have each night without treatment is NOT related to how much pressure is required to prevent those events.

For example, somebody with an untreated ahi of 20 may need a pressure of 15 to get an ahi below 5, and somebody else with an untreated ahi of 90 may need a pressure of only 7 to get an ahi less than 5.

The fact that you can get by with a lower pressure does not mean that you would have fewer events when not using a machine. Keep in mind that your machine records the events that were not prevented. It has no idea how many events would have occurred had the pressure not been there to prevent them. I'm sure if you lowered your pressure even more, your ahi would go up. The key is to find the ideal pressure to keep it as comfortable as possible while preventing as many events as possible. Just remember that a good ahi on teh machine means that your *treatment* is working. It doesn't mean that it isn't needed.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

Another idea, which will take longer is to use the features in my ""PR System One REMstar Pro CPAP Machine with AutoIQ."" The machine can detect my pressure requirements and adjust as needed. I have to sleep with it for 3 days in the 'auto-trial' phase to let it detect and select a setting. I'm not sure if it will tell me if I need 'zero' pressure, but it may tell me that I need something much lower than my initial setting of 11.

What are you waiting for? Just do it.

I suggest lowering the pressure one cm each night and watching what happens (Assuming you are running straight CPAP). If you get to the point where your AHI goes up significantly, keep it there a few nights to see if it is a fluke.

Some of the possible outcomes of this experiment are:

- You come to a point where the AHI becomes unacceptable and then you raise pressure one cm and see if that works for you long term.

or

- You eventually get to 4 cm and run like that for several nights and your AHI is acceptable. At this point you can assume CPAP is not necessary. Or you can have a home study without CPAP.

During all this experiment keep notes of how you are feeling during the day and whether you seem to be sleeping soundly.

It sounds to me that at the very least you may be able to lower your pressure. At best, you may not need CPAP.

I'm sure if you lowered your pressure even more, your ahi would go up.

Did you really mean that Zoo? It might be a good guess, but you can't be sure of it until he tries it.

OhHelpMe wrote:

I'm sure if you lowered your pressure even more, your ahi would go up.

Did you really mean that Zoo? It might be a good guess, but you can't be sure of it until he tries it.

Yes, I did mean that. He is having events, and his original pressure was 11. Since most people do not cure themselves of sleep apnea, it is most likely that once he goes lower than his ideal pressure, his ahi will start climbing. It is unlikely that he will get down to a pressure of 4 with an ahi of less than 5. He hasn't said how much lower he has set it. Instead, he has been sleeping without the machine and recording audio to listen for snoring. That doesn't always mean much. My mom as severe sleep apnea, and she doesn't snore.

zoocrewphoto wrote: I'm sure

zoocrewphoto wrote: it is most likely

Thank you.

At the very least do an overnight oximeter test, for one or more nights. Your primary care doctor can get one for you, and check the results. That is often Step 1 in diagnosis of sleep apnea. It was for me.

OhHelpMe wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote: I'm sure

zoocrewphoto wrote: it is most likely

Thank you.

So do you think it will stay below 1 if he goes down from 11 to 4? If yes, why?

He's already stated that he is still having snoring issues without cpap, so he is unlikely to be able to quit cpap. So, why would anybody believe his ahi would not go up if he lowered the pressure below his therapeutic level?

You are really worried that it was wrong to say it will go up, as apposed to most likely to go up? Wouldn't it be more important to help this person keep using his therapy and not mistakenly quit using it? Rather than nitpick about a very tiny percentage that he might not have events? I've had some nights with a 0 for ahi. Does that mean I am cured or can lower my pressure? Hell no. It means my machine is doing an awesome job!

So do you think it will stay below 1 if he goes down from 11 to 4?

I never said that. It is a creation of your imagination.

So, why would anybody believe his ahi would not go up if he lowered the pressure below his therapeutic level?

By definition AHI and/or RDI goes up below therapeutic pressure. You are using circular logic.

You are really worried that it was wrong to say it will go up, as apposed to most likely to go up?

I am not worried and I rarely ever worry.

Rather than nitpick about a very tiny percentage that he might not have events?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Does that mean I am cured or can lower my pressure?

You can do anything you want without consulting with me.