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Update: I finally got this straightened out. Apria gave me a "NEW" ResMed S9 Autoset! This time, I checked the "Run Hrs 0" and it was a brand new machine.

The Respiratory Therapist named Yanina (different from the first one I saw) was very nice and to her credit didn't try to make any excuses for me getting a used refurbished machine the first time. She did say Apria does much more business with Respironics (I assume they are more profitable for Apria), and does not stock many ResMed units. Therefore, the previous Tech probably just took any machine off the shelf they had and set it up for me, and he didn't care if it was used or new. In fact, he did say to me he didn't believe there was any difference in the machines themselves, manufacturer or otherwise. I think those of us on the board here would differ with him.

Anyway, Apria did make the change to the new machine after all. I still think it was a "corporate decision" to substitute a refurb in place of a new machine, but I can't prove it.

Guess the motto to all of this is "Buyer beware" and try to make an informed decision about our health purchases!

Thanks again for all who replied!

Art

Similar think happened to me also with Apria. I was not aware until I found cpaptalk and eventually installed Sleepyhead. My machine was started with an installed prescription a Oct. 5, 2013 and I received it Nov. 25, 2013. Not in a box and missing filter. Mine is a rental I am not sure who to contact Medicare, supplemental insurance or Apria. I voiced my suspicions once to major denials. Should I force a new one or return and go to new company I am currently switching to for supplies?

I work for Crapria, you guys are not wrong. Refurbished units are being sold/dispensed as new.

crapria employee wrote:I work for Crapria, you guys are not wrong. Refurbished units are being sold/dispensed as new.

You would be doing a lot of good if you become a whistleblower, and report this to the appropriate authorities.

I wonder if anyone has died from getting a defective and/or contaminated gear?

My DME who is not Apria has promised to deliver to me a brand new machine still sealed up in it's manufacturer's plastic bag just as soon as the sleep doctor from the hospital based lab where I was titrated on June 4th finally signs off on my titration report and his report is then sent to my primary care doctor who agreed to order a new 2 night sleep study back on April 9th which my insurance company finally approved on May 06th and I went in for my PSG on May 21 and my titration on June 4th.

I would assume my primary care doctor would then determine from the sleep doctor's report what kind of a machine I will need for my sleep apnea based upon my newly diagnosed pressure and he will be the one who will write the order for a new machine and I guess from there the order would be sent to my DME. If these machines come shipped to the DME's sealed up in their manufacturer's plastic bags it would seem to me that a tech at a DME would have to open the manufacturer's plastic bags protecting those new machines so the tech could check the new machines out; I may be wrong on that.

On a ResMed or a Philips Respironics machine; if you can contact either company; good luck in getting through to speak to someone at Philips Respironics since they told me earlier this year they did not accept calls from patients; only from DME's but just assume a patient can call either company depending on which brand of machine they receive; could the patient give the serial number of their machine to the manufacturer and would the manufacturer tell the patient when their machine was actually made? I use to do that years ago when buying major appliances for my home; especially G.E. appliances like a washer or clothes dryer.

I could contact G.E.'s Answer Center; give them the make and model number of the appliance; give them the serial number and they would tell me where the appliance was made; when it was made; where it had been shipped to for retail sale and anything else I wanted to know about the appliance. Most appliance manufacturers already stamp a date of manufacture on their appliances but I still liked to check the information out to confirm it. I've never done that with a CPAP machine but after reading all of these posts about others receiving used machines from their DME's when they were being misled by their DME's who were telling them their machines were in fact brand new has got me to thinking about checking my machine out just as soon I get one. Hopefully I'll get my new machine sometime in July 2014; the paperwork process seems to be awfully slow when dealing with insurance.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

I am certainly not trying to make excuses for Apria as I can tell from postings on this forum that their reputation is well deserved.

I have helped 2 people get brand new ResMed S9 AutoSets from Apria (locally) with no problems whatsoever. But, I firmly believe that is due to the advance preparation done before ever dealing with Apria AND Apria's knowledge that this advance preparation was done.

I firmly believe that any DME will try to give anyone a used machine (if they have one in stock) when that person "relies" on the DME & provides very little or no input at all. That is done because the DMEs think that person will never even notice.

In my opinion, the 2 most important things to check BEFORE anyone ever accepts a machine (from ANY DME) are the Run Hours & the version of the internal software.

Check the Run Hours to make sure you are not being given a used machine.

Check the version of the internal software to make sure you are not being given a "stale" machine that has been sitting around for some time & does not have the updated features that a newer version of the internal software will provide.

I don't know about Respironics, but ResMed machines routinely sit in the ResMed warehouses for as much as 3 months before they are even shipped to the middleman who then sells them to the DMEs.

So a ResMed machine can be 3 months old before it even gets to the DME.
Then, if the DME has a large inventory, that machine can sit at the DME for another 3 months or so before it is sold to the patient. It is NOT uncommon for a ResMed machine to be 6 months old (from the date of manufacture) before it gets to a patient. I exchanged my initially purchased ResMed S9 AutoSet (brand new) for another brand new one that had a more current version of the internal software. The machine had to come directly from ResMed to accomplish that.

You can get what you are paying for - but you must be vigilant.
Be nice, but aggressive.

StuUnderPressure wrote:I am certainly not trying to make excuses for Apria as I can tell from postings on this forum that their reputation is well deserved.

I have helped 2 people get brand new ResMed S9 AutoSets from Apria (locally) with no problems whatsoever. But, I firmly believe that is due to the advance preparation done before ever dealing with Apria AND Apria's knowledge that this advance preparation was done.

I firmly believe that any DME will try to give anyone a used machine (if they have one in stock) when that person "relies" on the DME & provides very little or no input at all. That is done because the DMEs think that person will never even notice.

In my opinion, the 2 most important things to check BEFORE anyone ever accepts a machine (from ANY DME) are the Run Hours & the version of the internal software.

Check the Run Hours to make sure you are not being given a used machine.

Check the version of the internal software to make sure you are not being given a "stale" machine that has been sitting around for some time & does not have the updated features that a newer version of the internal software will provide.

I don't know about Respironics, but ResMed machines routinely sit in the ResMed warehouses for as much as 3 months before they are even shipped to the middleman who then sells them to the DMEs.

So a ResMed machine can be 3 months old before it even gets to the DME.
Then, if the DME has a large inventory, that machine can sit at the DME for another 3 months or so before it is sold to the patient. It is NOT uncommon for a ResMed machine to be 6 months old (from the date of manufacture) before it gets to a patient. I exchanged my initially purchased ResMed S9 AutoSet (brand new) for another brand new one that had a more current version of the internal software. The machine had to come directly from ResMed to accomplish that.

You can get what you are paying for - but you must be vigilant.
Be nice, but aggressive.

Good post. You mentioned the middleman; most DME's do not purchase their machines directly from the machine's manufacturer? I'm just curious which is why I'm asking. How do you find out what a specific machine's software is once you receive it? Go to Mr. Google for assistance? Come here to this website and it's wealth of knowledgable members to seek assistance? Again I'm just curious and would like to know. I'm waiting on my titration results to come back from the lab's sleep doctor and soon I'll be in the "issue me a machine" game so I'm very interested to know what all I need to know to make sure when I receive my machine whether it be a CPAP or a BIPAP that the machine I will receive is brand new and not a gently used "used" machine. My DME primarily deals in ResMed machines but has told me if I would prefer a Philips Respironics machine they would do their best to get me one. I've been using a "gently used" ResMed S9 Elite CPAP machine with HH for 2 months now which belongs to my DME since my P.R. DS400S quit working 2 months ago and the DME told me to continue using it until I finally get an order for a machine from my doctor.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Good post. You mentioned the middleman; most DME's do not purchase their machines directly from the machine's manufacturer? I'm just curious which is why I'm asking.

Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

Middleman may not have been a good choice of word.

ResMed the "manufacturer" ships its machines to a "Sales Representative".
Machines are shipped to the DME from that Sales Rep.
In the U.S., that is usually California.

How do you find out what a specific machine's software is once you receive it? Go to Mr. Google for assistance? Come here to this website and it's wealth of knowledgable members to seek assistance? Again I'm just curious and would like to know.

On a ResMed machine, that information is as accessible as the Run Hours.
The screen on which it is shown, however, is determined by which software version you have.

I will let the Respironics users tell you where to find that information on a Respironics.

I'm waiting on my titration results to come back from the lab's sleep doctor and soon I'll be in the "issue me a machine" game so I'm very interested to know what all I need to know to make sure when I receive my machine whether it be a CPAP or a BIPAP that the machine I will receive is brand new and not a gently used "used" machine. My DME primarily deals in ResMed machines but has told me if I would prefer a Philips Respironics machine they would do their best to get me one. I've been using a "gently used" ResMed S9 Elite CPAP machine with HH for 2 months now which belongs to my DME since my P.R. DS400S quit working 2 months ago and the DME told me to continue using it until I finally get an order for a machine from my doctor.

If it were me, I would determine all of that BEFORE I take possession of the machine, make any payment, sign any form, etc.

It is always easier to just say I won't accept that machine, than it is to try to get it switched out later.

StuUnderPressure wrote:

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Good post. You mentioned the middleman; most DME's do not purchase their machines directly from the machine's manufacturer? I'm just curious which is why I'm asking.

Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

Middleman may not have been a good choice of word.

ResMed the "manufacturer" ships its machines to a "Sales Representative".
Machines are shipped to the DME from that Sales Rep.
In the U.S., that is usually California.

How do you find out what a specific machine's software is once you receive it? Go to Mr. Google for assistance? Come here to this website and it's wealth of knowledgable members to seek assistance? Again I'm just curious and would like to know.

On a ResMed machine, that information is as accessible as the Run Hours.
The screen on which it is shown, however, is determined by which software version you have.

I will let the Respironics users tell you where to find that information on a Respironics.

I'm waiting on my titration results to come back from the lab's sleep doctor and soon I'll be in the "issue me a machine" game so I'm very interested to know what all I need to know to make sure when I receive my machine whether it be a CPAP or a BIPAP that the machine I will receive is brand new and not a gently used "used" machine. My DME primarily deals in ResMed machines but has told me if I would prefer a Philips Respironics machine they would do their best to get me one. I've been using a "gently used" ResMed S9 Elite CPAP machine with HH for 2 months now which belongs to my DME since my P.R. DS400S quit working 2 months ago and the DME told me to continue using it until I finally get an order for a machine from my doctor.

If it were me, I would determine all of that BEFORE I take possession of the machine, make any payment, sign any form, etc.

It is always easier to just say I won't accept that machine, than it is to try to get it switched out later.

I'm attempting to do all of that before I receive my machine; that's why I've been asking these questions. The RT who works for the DME who's been letting me use a ResMed S9 Elite CPAP machine with HH for the last 2 months told me last month when the time came for me to get my machine if I got it from them she; the RT said she would bring me a new; factory sealed machine still in it's manufacturer's plastic bag inside the box. That all sounds good but she probably won't be able to do that. Don't the DME's have to check their new machines out before they send them out to patients which would require the machine to be removed from it's manufacturer's factory sealed plastic bag I would think if they are shipped from the manufacturers that way. I'm just speculating because I really don't know. The new machines could come inside a plastic bag but it might not be in a factory sealed bag like basic CPAP supplies like a mask; hose; headgear; filters; etc. are. I just recently received my 6 month supplies from the DME and all of the supplies I did receive were in factory sealed plastic bags. I had to cut the bags open with scissors to get them out.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

Stevoreno_55 wrote: I'm attempting to do all of that before I receive my machine; that's why I've been asking these questions. The RT who works for the DME who's been letting me use a ResMed S9 Elite CPAP machine with HH for the last 2 months told me last month when the time came for me to get my machine if I got it from them she; the RT said she would bring me a new; factory sealed machine still in it's manufacturer's plastic bag inside the box. That all sounds good but she probably won't be able to do that. Don't the DME's have to check their new machines out before they send them out to patients which would require the machine to be removed from it's manufacturer's factory sealed plastic bag I would think if they are shipped from the manufacturers that way. I'm just speculating because I really don't know. The new machines could come inside a plastic bag but it might not be in a factory sealed bag like basic CPAP supplies like a mask; hose; headgear; filters; etc. are. I just recently received my 6 month supplies from the DME and all of the supplies I did receive were in factory sealed plastic bags. I had to cut the bags open with scissors to get them out.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/17/14

I tried to get my DME to just ship it directly to me.
They would not do that.

Someone who bought their machine outright from CPAP.com would have had it shipped directly to them. Maybe one of them will chime in as to whether it is in a "sealed" plastic bag. Like you, I believe if it is in a plastic bag, it would not be sealed - but I don't know that for sure.

Regardless, if you buy from a DME, they insist on setting it up for you.
So it WOULD have to be removed from whatever packaging it came in.

SetUp of a ResMed machine does not add enough time to the Run Hours for it to even register. A "new" machine will still show -0- Run Hours even after it is setup by the DME.

artpenjr wrote:Update: Apria has agreed to replace the used Resmed S9 Autoset I received with a brand new machine. I am picking it up tomorrow (5/15/2014).

Their excuse for selling me a unit with over 1,000 hours of use as "new" was they sell refurbished and reconditioned machines and they didn't realize I wanted a "new" machine. What a bunch of crap. The Respiratory Therapist told me four times it was brand new after I asked, and when I had questions about missing accessories.

But it was brand new. Just not when you took possession.

Just a quick question: what is the newest firmware on an S9 AutoSet?
I'm toying with ordering a new pink one for myself.

chunkyfrog wrote:Just a quick question: what is the newest firmware on an S9 AutoSet?
I'm toying with ordering a new pink one for myself.

Besides being offered the option to purchase the standard black and silver one you can also purchase a pink one?


Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
06/18/14

CF, see here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97732&p=908990#p908990
Looks like SX474-1201 according to STLMark

Thank you; (egad) my machine is on SX474-0602!
I'm sleeping with a dinosaur!