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Some devices use the cell phone network to keep on time, transfer data, and even allow your doctor to change your settings remotely.

If you are making a device it is best to make a whole bunch of them in one run. So you include the cell phone capability in all of the devices but turn it on only in the expensive devices.

Of course if you manufacture the devices you know all of the ways they can be used.

I think this is much more reality than we want to think.

Rustsmith wrote: In order to connect an xPAP machine to your WiFi system so that it can send data out to the doctor or DME, it will need to know the security code for your router (assuming you have the security feature turned on, which is should be). This means that either you need to agree to do this and are given the detailed instructions on how to accomplish it or the DME has to come to your home and do it for you (after you provide them with the security code, which you should not). And even if the machine had the smarts to figure out how to connect to my router by itself, I can always block based upon it machine address in the same way that I could block my neighbor's kid who was trying to hack into my system.

I'll grant all this.

But with the current modems that some DMEs are using, it is clear that there are newbie CPAPers who have PAPs with modems attached and the new PAPAer has no idea how the data is getting sent to the DME and that the new PAPer had to do NO set up to make the modem data transfer take place.

What if the DMEs, insurance companies, and manufacturers decide that mandatory modems are the way to go and then the manufacturers simply delete the data card slot because it is "unnecessary"?

Then I, for one, will buy from their competitor.

Some random thoughts........

I'm kind of with "the frog" in that there may be some obstacles with HIPAA regarding some of this.

Way back when........(about 9 years ago), the Puritan Bennett PB420E had a RJ11 (phone) jack in the back of their machines and you could build a null modem cable to connect it to your computer to download your data (I still have the pin-out specs on it to build one).
Along these lines, Respironics had a "Sleep Link Modem System" to send data "somewhere".
So, computer connectivity isn't exactly "new" thinking. But, now there's wireless technology.

Personally, I'll stay "disconnected" as much as possible.......to hopefully keep "big brother" out of my life.


Den

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robysue wrote:

Jay Aitchsee wrote:

robysue wrote:My question for the group: How far-fetched does this scenario seem to you?

Sounds like you're describing this: http://www.resmed.com/epn/products/easy ... s&sec=true

This is indeed what started the paranoid thinking.

Right now that wireless contraption is an add on and it does NOT eliminate the data card.

The problem I have with this is the potential to leave the patient completely out of the loop.

I'd feel more confident that the patients wouldn't be left out if there was any transparency right now when it comes to our treatment and our data.

But: The average DME and doc believes we should have NO access to the data. And Resmed and PR and the rest do NOT think of us as their customers. So if the DMEs and docs decide that the way to prevent us from having access to the data is to require a wireless contraption as a replacement for the SD card, does that leave us royally screwed?

Roby Sue,

I know someone who had a machine with a wireless contraption and had to get his data from the DME. But it sounds like from what you are saying that there was a data card somewhere and he probably just didn't know how to access it.

Agree that your scenario is quite frightening. Essentially, it would be like having a brick if we had doctors who didn't think we should be able to access the data.

49er

Todzo wrote:Some devices use the cell phone network to keep on time, transfer data, and even allow your doctor to change your settings remotely.

If you are making a device it is best to make a whole bunch of them in one run. So you include the cell phone capability in all of the devices but turn it on only in the expensive devices.

Of course if you manufacture the devices you know all of the ways they can be used.

I think this is much more reality than we want to think.

When I lived in Nova Scotia, one place you had to find the exact location in the house where there was a signal and not move while you made the call and that place seemed to change randomly. There are a lot of places where there is no cell phone coverage.

This definitely not intended to in anyway be a political statement, and I don't want this thread to head off in that direction, but I'm much more concerned about corporate spying/control than I am about government spying/control.

Phil

robysue wrote:

Jay Aitchsee wrote:

robysue wrote:My question for the group: How far-fetched does this scenario seem to you?

This is indeed what started the paranoid thinking.

Right now that wireless contraption is an add on and it does NOT eliminate the data card.

The problem I have with this is the potential to leave the patient completely out of the loop.

I'd feel more confident that the patients wouldn't be left out if there was any transparency right now when it comes to our treatment and our data.

But: The average DME and doc believes we should have NO access to the data. And Resmed and PR and the rest do NOT think of us as their customers. So if the DMEs and docs decide that the way to prevent us from having access to the data is to require a wireless contraption as a replacement for the SD card, does that leave us royally screwed?

Wulfman... wrote:I'm kind of with "the frog" in that there may be some obstacles with HIPAA regarding some of this.

The are some HIPAA obstacles the pt would have to agree to.

The data isn't stored on the machine mfgs site (I don't think). Tho I'm not sure who pays for the storage or the wireless transmissions. I know Resmed provides access to the lab, doc, & dme. Not sure why the lab would even need access as they would no longer be treating the pt at that point.

I do know that Resmed is against giving the pt access to data for any reason saying it is illegal. When pressed they make things up like they feel they would be treating the pts and won't accept that liability. You & I both know it is BS but they are opposed to pts having access to their data, period.

Like everyone else I would stock up a lifetime supply of older machines or buy from the competition.

Guest wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:I'm kind of with "the frog" in that there may be some obstacles with HIPAA regarding some of this.

The are some HIPAA obstacles the pt would have to agree to.

The data isn't stored on the machine mfgs site (I don't think). Tho I'm not sure who pays for the storage or the wireless transmissions. I know Resmed provides access to the lab, doc, & dme. Not sure why the lab would even need access as they would no longer be treating the pt at that point.

I do know that Resmed is against giving the pt access to data for any reason saying it is illegal. When pressed they make things up like they feel they would be treating the pts and won't accept that liability. You & I both know it is BS but they are opposed to pts having access to their data, period.

Like everyone else I would stock up a lifetime supply of older machines or buy from the competition.

Well, the machine belongs to the user (even if being paid in payments by insurance, which is actually the user's premium dollars being paid out) and the data is the user's. So, speaking for me, I would have no hesitation telling them they have absolutely NO RIGHT to see my data, unless I agree to it.


Den

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Guest wrote:Like everyone else I would stock up a lifetime supply of older machines or buy from the competition.

Yes, so would I. B u t... Robysue, I worry about plenty of things - some real, some imagined. To add your "paranoid fantasy" into the mix would make me more nutso than I already am. And I'm not saying this couldn't happen... could be it's already in the works and has been for some time. "They" are already hacking into our telephones and computers and claim to know our every move -- but no way am I going to let this be another thing to keep me awake at night. Sheesh... I've been upping my Ambien as it is.

Wulfman... wrote: Well, the machine belongs to the user (even if being paid in payments by insurance, which is actually the user's premium dollars being paid out) and the data is the user's. So, speaking for me, I would have no hesitation telling them they have absolutely NO RIGHT to see my data, unless I agree to it.

Den,

I agree totally with the data being mine.

My concern is this: What if the manufacturer makes it impossible for me (the owner of the data) to get at that data because they replace the SD card with some kind of a proprietary wireless system that sends my data God-knows-where, but prevents me from accessing it because I don't have the whatever-it-is that's needed to receive the data transmission?

And unfortunately I do see this as the direction that Resmed and PR are going: Resmed has never officially allowed patients access to ResScan and PR is content to sell Encore 2.1 even though it does not show the patient all the data that is recorded and is not fully compatible with all the high end machines. Likewise F&P makes it impossible for users of the Icon + series to find software that works with their machiens. And the web tools PR and Resmed have designed? They provide minimal data feedback compared to what we get when we plop the SD card into our computer and look at things in SH.

I don't even have my machine yet but I already value the idea of being able to access my data. The thought of not being able to access the data is a scary one. I sure hope it never happens.

robysue wrote:
I agree totally with the data being mine.

My concern is this: What if the manufacturer makes it impossible for me (the owner of the data) to get at that data because they replace the SD card with some kind of a proprietary wireless system that sends my data God-knows-where, but prevents me from accessing it because I don't have the whatever-it-is that's needed to receive the data transmission?
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Anything that is being transmitted can be pick up. Your bigger concern would be decrypting the encoding so it can be run through Sleepyhead or its descendent.

Todzo wrote:some machines seem to keep on time without intervention

so how do they do that?

Not sure anyone answered this question. It's called a clock circuit. It used to take a bunch of components but it's now down to one single chip that does lots of other things as well. And it takes only a tiny amount of power, such as from a Lithium Ion battery. Once upon a time those batteries were easily replaceable. But now most of these circuits only use the battery if the device is not connected to a power source. And the shrinking of the circuit means the required power is minuscule.

Most devices do NOT connect to the outside world to keep time.

Obviously, the exception is if the device needs to connect to a network (wi-fi) or cellular system.

A general observation. I will NOT allow anyone else to change my system without my consent. Thus, I would not allow even my doctor's office to connect to and collect data from my unit if they also have the ability to change the therapy settings. It's just way to easy to get the settings wrong. This is not from fear of technology. I used to be a third level engineer (non beyond me) if customers had problems with their computers and storage subsystems. I love technology and how it can work. However, I've seen too many instances when making something simple like this can also make it all too easy for honest mistakes to be made. I would rather crowd over the shoulder of the person making the setting adjustment. And I've corrected more than one mistake by doing just that.